Gay people in Church

[OP_Carl]

I perceive there are some underlying fundamental differences that might prove difficult to reconcile.

1) You argue that watching our new brothers and sisters as they grow spiritually is treating them with suspicion, which adds up to segregation, treating the saved like they’re still sinners, and the sin of judgment in your book.

I’m sure gays are treated incorrectly in all kinds of churches. But it doesn’t happen with everybody, everywhere.

2) You vocally and repeatedly insist that homosexuality and child molesting are unrelated.

You are on very shaky ground here. The facts and statistics are in my favor.

3) You prefer ad hominem arguments to ad hoc arguments.

This is always a losing strategy. Your presumption of my ignorance will be your downfall, debate-wise.

4) Here is the main problem: You are using the humanistic view of homosexuality, not the Apostolic view. Beneath it all, you have disassociated homosexual behavior from spiritual condition.

The Apostolic view is that all sin is a choice. There is no exception for homosexuality, that some people are born gay. It is the result of environment. That environment often includes some sort of sexual contact early in life, or very poor experiences in general with fathers/father figures.

Your approach is clearly the kind of vile approach the Pharisees would have taken "Oh, no, they're homosexuals, we don't want those kind of people in our church." It's people like you who drive homosexuals who would otherwise be seeking healing of their unnatural attraction and victory over their sin out of the Church and into the waiting and welcoming arms of the gay rights activists and the so-called "gay churches."

I agree that homosexuals are driven away. But it’s not for the reason you think, because you neglect acknowledgement of the spiritual aspect of homosexuality.

There is a spirit (and I don’t mean a good spirit) associated with homosexuality. On countless occasions I have spiritually sensed a gay person before I saw them. I have observed gay people from outside a meeting room, behaving normally. When I enter the room, they become nervous, agitated, and uncomfortable. Are they uncomfortable because I’m there? I look like any other businessman. It’s because there exists a spirit of homosexuality. The spirit that accompanies them is uncomfortable with the presence of the Holy Ghost in me. I’ve seen this with and heard of this from many other Apostolics. Maybe some will chime in here.

The notion that a preference or innate condition will spontaneously add to itself another preference or innate condition is surely hard to accept. But the notion that evil spirits will urge sinners to pursue more evil is Apostolic and abundantly evident. Evil spirits can throw people into a fire, right?

Gays, and especially gay activists, open themselves up to influence from these spirits. Why wouldn’t an evil spirit go out to the wilderness and gather seven more spirits?

From a spiritual perspective, it is easily understandable that somebody that is open to the spirit of homosexuality will have a difficult time resisting other evil spirits, including the spirit of pedophilia.

From generic accounts of counselors, very few people limit themselves to only one type of sexual deviancy.


I do have a question. How is your approach to reaching out to homosexuals different from the approach of the gay activists themselves in recruiting young teens to their cause?