Defend your Faith

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by crakjak

You and Jonathan Edwards should get along just peachy-illy.!!!

The following is an excerpt from the infamous 1741 sermon, "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" by Jonathan Edwards. Several church members were so terrified, they fainted during its delivery.

The God that holds you over the pit of hell, much as one holds a spider, or some loathsome insect over the fire, abhors you, and is dreadfully provoked: his wrath towards you burns like fire; he looks upon you as worthy of nothing else, but to be cast into the fire; he is of purer eyes than to bear to have you in his sight; you are ten thousand times more abominable in his eyes, than the most hateful venomous serpent is in ours. You have offended him infinitely more than ever a stubborn rebel did his prince; and yet it is nothing but his hand that holds you from falling into the fire every moment....

O sinner! Consider the fearful danger you are in: it is a great furnace of wrath, a wide and bottomless pit, full of the fire of wrath, that you are held over in the hand of that God, whose wrath is provoked and incensed as much against you, as against many of the damned in hell. You hang by a slender thread, with the flames of divine wrath flashing about it, and ready every moment to singe it, and burn it asunder; and you have no interest in any Mediator, and nothing to lay hold of to save yourself, nothing to keep off the flames of wrath, nothing of your own, nothing that you ever have done, nothing that you can do, to induce God to spare you one moment. And consider here more particularly ...

That God will execute the fierceness of his anger, implies, that he will inflict wrath without any pity. When God beholds the ineffable extremity of your case, and sees your torment to be so vastly disproportioned to your strength, and sees how your poor soul is crushed, and sinks down, as it were, into an infinite gloom; he will have no compassion upon you, he will not forbear the executions of his wrath, or in the least lighten his hand; there shall be no moderation or mercy, nor will God then at all stay his rough wind; he will have no regard to your welfare... your most lamentable and dolorous cries and shrieks will be in vain; you will be wholly lost and thrown away of God, as to any regard to your welfare. God will have no other use to put you to, but to suffer misery; you shall be continued in being to no other end ...

It is everlasting wrath. It would be dreadful to suffer this fierceness and wrath of Almighty God one moment; but you must suffer it to all eternity. There will be no end to this exquisite horrible misery. When you look forward, you shall see a long forever, a boundless duration before you, which will swallow up your thoughts, and amaze your soul; and you will absolutely despair of ever having any deliverance, any end, any mitigation, any rest at all. You will know certainly that you must wear out long ages, millions of millions of ages, in wrestling and conflicting with this almighty merciless vengeance; and then when you have so done, when so many ages have actually been spent by you in this manner, you will know that all is but a point to what remains. So that your punishment will indeed be infinite. Oh, who can express what the state of a soul in such circumstances is! All that we can possibly say about it, gives but a very feeble, faint representation of it; it is inexpressible and inconceivable: For "who knows the power of God's anger?"

This is a god created in the image of an anger man, not the God of the scriptures.

This was a great message if a Trinitarian did preach it that is IF he was a Trinitarian. Some puritains had links with groups like the Plymouth Brethren that all were not Trinitarians and some baptized in Jesus Name.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

This was a great message if a Trinitarian did preach it that is IF he was a Trinitarian. Some puritains had links with groups like the Plymouth Brethren that all were not Trinitarians and some baptized in Jesus Name.

You actually can read that sermon and call it a great representation of the God of scripture. And how He will treat His own creation? That really is amazing to me, Bro.:sshhh:sshhh

[Kutless]

Originally Posted by crakjak

You actually can read that sermon and call it a great representation of the God of scripture. And how He will treat His own creation? That really is amazing to me, Bro.:sshhh:sshhh

so you don't think God would tell it like it is?

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by crakjak

You actually can read that sermon and call it a great representation of the God of scripture. And how He will treat His own creation? That really is amazing to me, Bro.:sshhh:sshhh

Yes His wrath will be a immeasurable then as His love and mercy is today.

God who is full of goodness is also has severity. It balances out.

[Kutless]

does anyone think that the early church preached, taught, and read from the Septuagint alone?

[ReformedDave]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

This was a great message if a Trinitarian did preach it that is IF he was a Trinitarian. Some puritains had links with groups like the Plymouth Brethren that all were not Trinitarians and some baptized in Jesus Name.

Edwards was Trinitarian....thank God!

Originally Posted by crakjak

You and Jonathan Edwards should get along just peachy-illy.!!!

The following is an excerpt from the infamous 1741 sermon, "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" by Jonathan Edwards. Several church members were so terrified, they fainted during its delivery.

The God that holds you over the pit of hell, much as one holds a spider, or some loathsome insect over the fire, abhors you, and is dreadfully provoked: his wrath towards you burns like fire; he looks upon you as worthy of nothing else, but to be cast into the fire; he is of purer eyes than to bear to have you in his sight; you are ten thousand times more abominable in his eyes, than the most hateful venomous serpent is in ours. You have offended him infinitely more than ever a stubborn rebel did his prince; and yet it is nothing but his hand that holds you from falling into the fire every moment....

O sinner! Consider the fearful danger you are in: it is a great furnace of wrath, a wide and bottomless pit, full of the fire of wrath, that you are held over in the hand of that God, whose wrath is provoked and incensed as much against you, as against many of the damned in hell. You hang by a slender thread, with the flames of divine wrath flashing about it, and ready every moment to singe it, and burn it asunder; and you have no interest in any Mediator, and nothing to lay hold of to save yourself, nothing to keep off the flames of wrath, nothing of your own, nothing that you ever have done, nothing that you can do, to induce God to spare you one moment. And consider here more particularly ...

That God will execute the fierceness of his anger, implies, that he will inflict wrath without any pity. When God beholds the ineffable extremity of your case, and sees your torment to be so vastly disproportioned to your strength, and sees how your poor soul is crushed, and sinks down, as it were, into an infinite gloom; he will have no compassion upon you, he will not forbear the executions of his wrath, or in the least lighten his hand; there shall be no moderation or mercy, nor will God then at all stay his rough wind; he will have no regard to your welfare... your most lamentable and dolorous cries and shrieks will be in vain; you will be wholly lost and thrown away of God, as to any regard to your welfare. God will have no other use to put you to, but to suffer misery; you shall be continued in being to no other end ...

It is everlasting wrath. It would be dreadful to suffer this fierceness and wrath of Almighty God one moment; but you must suffer it to all eternity. There will be no end to this exquisite horrible misery. When you look forward, you shall see a long forever, a boundless duration before you, which will swallow up your thoughts, and amaze your soul; and you will absolutely despair of ever having any deliverance, any end, any mitigation, any rest at all. You will know certainly that you must wear out long ages, millions of millions of ages, in wrestling and conflicting with this almighty merciless vengeance; and then when you have so done, when so many ages have actually been spent by you in this manner, you will know that all is but a point to what remains. So that your punishment will indeed be infinite. Oh, who can express what the state of a soul in such circumstances is! All that we can possibly say about it, gives but a very feeble, faint representation of it; it is inexpressible and inconceivable: For "who knows the power of God's anger?"

This is a god created in the image of an anger man, not the God of the scriptures.

Yes, it was such a powerful message! It was clearly used of God to shake up a Laodicea-like church. Oh, in case people are thinking he preached it in a style we often call "fire and brimstone," he actually read the words in an almost monotone.

God is angry with the wicked every day and He will do the very kinds of things Jonathan Edwards preached. After all, God said "vengeance is mine, I will repay."

Originally Posted by Kutless

does anyone think that the early church preached, taught, and read from the Septuagint alone?

Except for perhaps the Jerusalem church, it's very likely they did.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Yes His wrath will be a immeasurable then as His love and mercy is today.

God who is full of goodness is also has severity. It balances out.

So if we love our children greatly, then it balances out if we beat the living day lights out of them.
I totally disagree, God's severity has at its roots the same purpose as His love. And that is to redeem and restore His whole creation.

God didn't lose control at Eden, He planned for man to be exposed to both good and evil from the very beginning.

Originally Posted by crakjak

So if we love our children greatly, then it balances out if we beat the living day lights out of them.
I totally disagree, God's severity has at its roots the same purpose as His love. And that is to redeem and restore His whole creation.

God didn't lose control at Eden, He planned for man to be exposed to both good and evil from the very beginning.

Solomon did say that if you beat a child he will not die.

Seriously, though, the only humans who are God's children are those who have obeyed the gospel call.