Christians as Murderers?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by pelathais

... what has happened to the mureder rates ...

And there I go murdering the English language.

[Timmy]

What is the basis of a pro-life stance? Is it Biblical? We like to talk about the "sanctity of human life". But how does God feel about innocent unborn babies? And born babies, for that matter?

Hosea 13:16
Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.

Deuteronomy 2:33-35
33 And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people. 34 And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain: 35 Only the cattle we took for a prey unto ourselves, and the spoil of the cities which we took.

And then there is the glorious battle that God's people fought in Numbers 31. But the soldiers were chastised for not killing the women. Moses had them finish the job, but they were to spare the young virgins and keep them for themselves. Oh, all except a "tribute" to the Lord of 32 virgins. For a "heave offering".

Ah, but the NT is much kinder and gentler, isn't it? Yes, when Herod wanted to kill little Jesus, God performed a wonderful miracle. He told Joseph in a dream to run away. That way, Herod could not kill Jesus. Only all the other children in Bethlehem, hundreds of them perhaps. Did God wish He had thought of a better miracle to save Jesus? Did this slaughter take God by surprise? No. It was already prophesied in Jeremiah 31:15, as pointed out in Matt 2:17-18.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Rico

The death penalty bought every one of you your salvation, so think about that while you go around saying it's wrong.

Strange logic. No man took his life - He gave it!


Any governmental death penalty should be as "just" as humans can make it. If anything can be said about those who killed Christ it would be in the vien of murder... he was innocent.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

Strange logic. No man took his life - He gave it!

Nothing strange about it, Bro. He was sentenced to death. Whether or not He had the power to keep it from happening doesn't change that fact.

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Timmy

What is the basis of a pro-life stance? Is it Biblical? We like to talk about the "sanctity of human life". But how does God feel about innocent unborn babies? And born babies, for that matter?

Hosea 13:16
Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.

Deuteronomy 2:33-35
33 And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people. 34 And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain: 35 Only the cattle we took for a prey unto ourselves, and the spoil of the cities which we took.

And then there is the glorious battle that God's people fought in Numbers 31. But the soldiers were chastised for not killing the women. Moses had them finish the job, but they were to spare the young virgins and keep them for themselves. Oh, all except a "tribute" to the Lord of 32 virgins. For a "heave offering".

Ah, but the NT is much kinder and gentler, isn't it? Yes, when Herod wanted to kill little Jesus, God performed a wonderful miracle. He told Joseph in a dream to run away. That way, Herod could not kill Jesus. Only all the other children in Bethlehem, hundreds of them perhaps. Did God wish He had thought of a better miracle to save Jesus? Did this slaughter take God by surprise? No. It was already prophesied in Jeremiah 31:15, as pointed out in Matthew 2:17-18.

BTW, I am pro-life. Just having a hard time with some of these things in Scripture. Disturbing stuff, don't you think?

As for capital punishment, I'm against it, at least the way it works these days. Main problem is the apparently large number of innocents that are executed. So I've heard, anyway. I suspect that both sides are prone to cooking stats to their own advantage (like with most controversial issues!). But even if it's not a "large" number, per se, even just a few mistaken executions would make me think carefully.

And I fail to see how Christ's execution implies that must therefore be in favor of capital punishment today! Let's see, what should we do with this convicted murderer over here? Hmm. Christ died for the sins of the world, so hmm... Oh, of course, since they crucified Christ (who was innocent), and that event brought us all salvation, then we should kill this guy! Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

[ReformedDave]

Originally Posted by Alter Ego

Where in the NT is governmental issued execution approved of or even spoken favorably about?

Why does it have to be from the New Testament? Different God??????

[Trouvere]

Most people who get the death penalty know they deserve it.Many even admit they deserve it.I wonder how you would feel if you went home today and someone had murdered all the members of your family and then this monster crossed into the next county and murdered another family.Is this a possible scenario? yes it is.Then this person goes before the judge and gets the chair.
Is it justice even though it won't bring the person back? I don't know but I am
praying about it.Murder is one thing.That is the taking of life just to do so but what if its in self defense? Alot to think about.Is self defense okay but the defense of others who are innocent not allowable? There are some dirt bags on this planet who don't care who they kill.Just some fodder for the flock.Life is not always ideal.
The group there at Jerusalem chose to let a murderer run free and kill Jesus.

[tv1a]

If I'm not mistaken, the more accurate translation of that commandment should read Thou Shalt not murder.

Death Penalties would be more of a deterrent if it didn't take so long to do it. I like OT law. Guilty, Die, get it over with.

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

God said "Thou shalt not kill", yet He commanded His people to annihilate their enemies. How does that reconcile?

I think there is a difference between taking innocent life and someone who basically chooses their fate with their own actions.

I'm not entirely comfortable with the death penalty...BUT...I certainly wouldn't hesitate to defend my family with deadly force if necessary, and I think the death penalty is similarly...a defense of society.

[tv1a]

This is one of the few areas people can say I'm inconsitent. I have not been able to effective reconcile my pro-life/pro death penalty positions. It may help if I think of this issue like the pro internet/anti tv folks. I'm sure I can come up with something fantastic.

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Trouvere

Most people who get the death penalty know they deserve it.Many even admit they deserve it.I wonder how you would feel if you went home today and someone had murdered all the members of your family and then this monster crossed into the next county and murdered another family.Is this a possible scenario? yes it is.Then this person goes before the judge and gets the chair.
Is it justice even though it won't bring the person back? I don't know but I am
praying about it.Murder is one thing.That is the taking of life just to do so but what if its in self defense? Alot to think about.Is self defense okay but the defense of others who are innocent not allowable? There are some dirt bags on this planet who don't care who they kill.Just some fodder for the flock.Life is not always ideal.
The group there at Jerusalem chose to let a murderer run free and kill Jesus.

All true. I'm not completely comfortable in my anti-death-penalty position, really. There are many who truly deserve what they get (in my gut feeling, anyway), and yet, what about the innocents? Every once in a while, there's a report of someone on death row being freed because of new evidence. Yes, of course, that's pretty rare, and most on death row probably are 100% guilty. But open and shut cases, proven guiltly beyond doubt etc. are probably rare, too.

It has always bothered me that death row in-mates are sometimes there for many years. But if it weren't for that, the exonerating evidence would have come too late. (It probably has anyway, for some.)