Rules and Spirit - Page 3

Digging4Truth · #21 07-11-2007, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

I like the subject of this thread.

"Rules" create loopholes. "Principles" do not.

So true...

mfblume · #22 07-11-2007, 10:00 AM

Very good points we're reading here, folks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Bro Blume,

Are there different types of rules? For instance there is the Law of Moses, and,

Rom 3:27 Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.

As Digging.. said, a law is principle. The law of gravity, for instance, is a "source" or principle from which things react a certain way, given the circumstances required for it to fall under the law. When we qualify for a law to work, we will expect to see the same results.

The law of faith says that if we believe and trust, then we can expect certain results. But the law of Moses is certainly different. It is what Paul called carnal ordinances. The flesh is appealed to by it. It relates to flesh, which is all God could do before Giving His Spirit and redeeming men.

Quote:

Rom 7:25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.

Principles are here again. Here, Paul noted that his will was present to obey the Mosaic law of God, but he could not do it. His flesh, instead, alkways tended towards sinning.

Quote:

Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

The Law of Moses is mentioned above in that verse.

Quote:

1 Cor 9:20-21 To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law; to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law.

Is there a law or rule we must keep and we do this 'keeping' by walking and being led of the Spirit?

Yes! But it is not a carnal ordinance. You raise a good point. Perhaps it is better to speak about carnal rules versus spiritual ones. Since this righteousness without the law falls under another sort of law -- that of faith -- there are certain qualifications we must hold in order to experience that righteousness.

Romans 8:2 also mentions the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. The way we relate to this law is not through the means by which people relate to the Law of Moses. Our spirits discern God's ways in the law of the Spirit, whereas our flesh relates to the law of Moses.

So in my title, Rules and Spirit, both are involving LAWS. It's just that the flesh relates to the Law of Moses and the human born again spirit relates to the Law of Faith. But we've been so entrenched in carnality all our lives so that after we are saved we find it far easier to resort to the WRITTEN law of Moses, and turn the New Testament into something similar, instead of learning to be spiritual and walking after the Spirit and relating to the inward law written on our hearts.

mfblume · #23 07-11-2007, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

I first saw the title and it sounded like a thought I would find enjoyable and then I saw who authored the thread and I knew it was going to be great.

Excellent writing brother.

In todays church world those who would begin a movement to maturity are often marked as rebellious and in the midst of a wonderful maturity in Christ they are thrown off kilter by a reaction they do not understand.

Spiritual maturity is a what God desires for all of us.

Wow, great summation, and thanks for your kind words.

Yes, the way Paul spoke of law and faith in Romans was misunderstood, too. That is why Paul kept clarifying his point by asking a hypothetical question he knew people would ask in error, and correcting it himself.

"Should we sin that grace may abound? God forbid!"

"Shall we sin because we are not under law? God forbid."

I have had people ask these VERY SAME QUESTIONS!

Paul was amazing in predicting a carnal response from those who simply cannot relate to spirituality. WOW.

Pressing-On · #24 07-11-2007, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

So in my title, Rules and Spirit, both are involving LAWS. It's just that the flesh relates to the Law of Moses and the human born again spirit relates to the Law of Faith. But we've been so entrenched in carnality all our lives so that after we are saved we find it far easier to resort to the WRITTEN law of Moses, and turn the New Testament into something similar, instead of learning to be spiritual and walking after the Spirit and relating to the inward law written on our hearts.

Good point and goes along better at explaining what I was trying to say.

We have lived in carnality so long and we do settle into the written law in the church. We gravitate to it.

Scott Hutchinson · #25 07-11-2007, 10:25 AM

What about praying and fasting and Seeking God's face till we are changed from wanting to do fleshy things or carnal desires to wanting to mind the things of the Spirit ?

Digging4Truth · #26 07-11-2007, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

What about praying and fasting and Seeking God's face till we are changed from wanting to do fleshy things or carnal desires to wanting to mind the things of the Spirit ?

No need for that brother... We have RULES.........

Scott Hutchinson · #27 07-11-2007, 12:37 PM

Rules if Biblical based aren't bad ,but rules won't conform us to the image of Christ.If one experiences the life changing power of the shed blood of The Lamb ,then they'll want to follow The Lord in progressive sanctification.

Digging4Truth · #28 07-11-2007, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

Rules if Biblical based aren't bad ,but rules won't conform us to the image of Christ.If one experiences the life changing power of the shed blood of The Lamb ,then they'll want to follow The Lord in progressive sanctification.

Indeed... I do believe I started a thread on that very subject sometime back.

#29 07-12-2007, 10:43 AM

Jesus told Nicodemous....

that which is born of the flesh is flesh...

that which is born of the spirit is spirit...

We already have too much flesh romping about... we need more spirit for sure!

What then do we do to teach, train, etc. those who are new to this walking after the Spirit stuff and by "default" walk after the flesh?

If "standards" are applied and taught with the principle being the focus, would that serve to guide people into following after Him?

Ever notice how some kids need training wheels longer that others.... some always need them... some learn to ride without them at all..... maybe the training wheels being there depends on the kid and not the teacher....

RandyWayne · #30 07-12-2007, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Ever notice how some kids need training wheels longer that others.... some always need them... some learn to ride without them at all..... maybe the training wheels being there depends on the kid and not the teacher....

True except I RARELY, if ever, actually see the "training wheels" come off. Instead more and more are usually added.