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  #151  
Old 07-13-2007, 09:15 AM
Chan
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Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
You didn't say "anyone" though you said THE UPC, you made a sweeping generalization.
Yes, it was a generalization but it certainly seems that those individuals in the UPC that don't consider trinitarians unsaved are in the minority. I suspect that if you went to the powers that be out there in the UPC Vatican they would tell you that trinitarians are not saved.

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Why can't something be doctrinally sound from someone that is unsaved?
Because bad trees cannot bear good fruit.

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Just because someone has some doctrine incorrect does not mean ALL of their doctrine is.
But since their lack of salvation is being based on one particular doctrine (okay, maybe two doctrines)...

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Jehovahs Witnesses still believe in the virgin birth. They are doctrinally sound on that, but not on other areas.
Are they really so doctrinally sound on that? What do they believe about what was in Mary's womb? Just because they might get one thing partly right doesn't mean I'm going to start subscribing to Watchtower or start attending the Kingdom Hall.
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  #152  
Old 07-13-2007, 10:27 AM
chaotic_resolve chaotic_resolve is offline
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Originally Posted by CC1 View Post
Do you applaud him for the following?

Right after I moved to Nashville in 1999 Michael English was working his way back to credibility in gospel music.

He had hooked in with the TBN crowd and they were promoting him heavily. In addition to guesting a lot on TBN he was given his own show or was at least featured on a series (I forget which exactly).

With all of this publicity he was primed for his "second chance". He recorded a new CD and just before it was to come out and while he still appearing on TBN as this repented, forgiven saint who had fallen but now had made things right he was arrested by the Nashville police for illegal possession of precription drugs.

The police raided the apartment that news reports said he SHARED with his girlfriend and found something like 400 prescription drugs he was using and abusing with no prescriptions (the number may be wrong I am going from my memory of 8 years or so ago but it was an amazingly large number).

It amazes me that when something like this happens after a person has already done a doozy like committing adultery the TBN crowd get mad at you for suggesting perhaps you don't continue to have faith in the person.
I'm glad you're perfect . . . Really, I am. I'm glad you've never done something wrong only to turn around and do something else wrong.

Can't say that myself. I've made boneheaded decisions, messed up, got right only to turn left again and had to start all over.

I, too, had the pharisees around me that pointed (as you have) to the faults and inconsistencies in my life. Thankfully I'm blessed to be stubborn. Thankfully I have this way of learning to ignore the ones who rejoice in failures and shortcomings. Thankfully I never gave up, though that would have been so easy to do at times. Thankfully there were some sincere Christians that picked me up, helped brush me off and led me back to the cross.

I knew the drug news would be brought out. Unfortunately artists and people like Michael live in very open, glass houses. Their mistakes aren't just reminded of them by the condemnation they feel in their hearts, but it's the splash on the front page of the paper; the lead story in the 10 o'clock news; the fodder of late-night shows and comedians.

It's unfortunate that one's who profess themselves to be Christians are among the stone-throwers.

Tell me, CC1, are you without sin?

Yes, Michael was addicted to prescription drugs; and yes he obtained a large amount of those drugs illegally - though I don't believe the number mentioned is accurate.

What's lost in this condemning diatribe against him is that he's not alone in this addiction. Others have been addicted to the same thing.

One man we all know, Rush Limbaugh, was addicted and illegally received some amount of these drugs.

I believe it was around the same time that he was going through a divorce and the loss of hearing in his ear.

Imagine this, if you can...though I'm sure your life is perfect and you've never had problems like Michael.

He was on the top as a Christian artist, just having swept several Dove Awards;
Within a week that all comes crashing down with his confession of the affair and pregnancy;
Then Jordan miscarries;
He's dropped from every so-called Christian radio station, retailer and his record label;
There's the no-doubt, ugly divorce; and
Suddenly the man who had it all was left with nothing.

If memory is right, I believe he was legally prescribed these drugs before becoming addicted.

Just as Rush Limbaugh...

Just as some church folk I know...

The drugs weren't illegal; they're used by millions of people, including some apostolics I know.

Several years ago I was hospitalized for over a week and was prescribed the same pills RL was given. I never became addicted, never have needed to get another prescription to them.

At the same time, there's a couple other things that helped me not to become addicted to them: first and foremost is I have something that ME and RL didn't, the Holy Ghost inside me; second is I've never faced the hurt and despair I imagine they've felt during those times.

Don't be so quick to throw stones at the man. Yes, he was wrong. No, I don't applaud or approve of what he's done in the past . . . but it doesn't matter to God how many times a person falls; what really matters to God is how many times that person gets back up.

JMO
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  #153  
Old 07-13-2007, 10:29 AM
chaotic_resolve chaotic_resolve is offline
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An excellent article written on addictions that talks about both ME and RL.

Click Here
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  #154  
Old 07-13-2007, 11:57 AM
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Jack Shephard Jack Shephard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaotic_resolve View Post
I'm glad you're perfect . . . Really, I am. I'm glad you've never done something wrong only to turn around and do something else wrong.

Can't say that myself. I've made boneheaded decisions, messed up, got right only to turn left again and had to start all over.

I, too, had the pharisees around me that pointed (as you have) to the faults and inconsistencies in my life. Thankfully I'm blessed to be stubborn. Thankfully I have this way of learning to ignore the ones who rejoice in failures and shortcomings. Thankfully I never gave up, though that would have been so easy to do at times. Thankfully there were some sincere Christians that picked me up, helped brush me off and led me back to the cross.

I knew the drug news would be brought out. Unfortunately artists and people like Michael live in very open, glass houses. Their mistakes aren't just reminded of them by the condemnation they feel in their hearts, but it's the splash on the front page of the paper; the lead story in the 10 o'clock news; the fodder of late-night shows and comedians.

It's unfortunate that one's who profess themselves to be Christians are among the stone-throwers.

Tell me, CC1, are you without sin?

Yes, Michael was addicted to prescription drugs; and yes he obtained a large amount of those drugs illegally - though I don't believe the number mentioned is accurate.

What's lost in this condemning diatribe against him is that he's not alone in this addiction. Others have been addicted to the same thing.

One man we all know, Rush Limbaugh, was addicted and illegally received some amount of these drugs.

I believe it was around the same time that he was going through a divorce and the loss of hearing in his ear.

Imagine this, if you can...though I'm sure your life is perfect and you've never had problems like Michael.

He was on the top as a Christian artist, just having swept several Dove Awards;
Within a week that all comes crashing down with his confession of the affair and pregnancy;
Then Jordan miscarries;
He's dropped from every so-called Christian radio station, retailer and his record label;
There's the no-doubt, ugly divorce; and
Suddenly the man who had it all was left with nothing.

If memory is right, I believe he was legally prescribed these drugs before becoming addicted.

Just as Rush Limbaugh...

Just as some church folk I know...

The drugs weren't illegal; they're used by millions of people, including some apostolics I know.

Several years ago I was hospitalized for over a week and was prescribed the same pills RL was given. I never became addicted, never have needed to get another prescription to them.

At the same time, there's a couple other things that helped me not to become addicted to them: first and foremost is I have something that ME and RL didn't, the Holy Ghost inside me; second is I've never faced the hurt and despair I imagine they've felt during those times.

Don't be so quick to throw stones at the man. Yes, he was wrong. No, I don't applaud or approve of what he's done in the past . . . but it doesn't matter to God how many times a person falls; what really matters to God is how many times that person gets back up.

JMO
CR....

You are way, way outta line here. You know I am a guy that talks about mercy and grace all the time. I am a guy for grace. But God is the one that gives the grace. CC is coming from a different point of view than we are on this. He is friends with the ex and knows some behind the scene stories. I do not think it is fair to pull out the "you-without-sin-cast-the-first-stone" thing. We have all sinned. CC is not saying he has not sinned. Infact, he said he has no problem with him, but he does not support ME's ministry by buying tapes and such. Come on!
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  #155  
Old 07-13-2007, 12:08 PM
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StillStanding StillStanding is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1 View Post
Just go ahead and rub it in that Mrs. CC1 and myself didn't rate an invite to the Pianoman mansion for the July 4th shindig.

I see that Dan Scott and Ken Abraham were on the list so apparently I have a ways to go to get on that list!
Chill, CC1!

It wasn't at my home, and it wasn't my shindig! Mrs. Pianoman and I were mere invitees!

There were others there, including Dave and Sharon Ramsey!
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  #156  
Old 07-13-2007, 12:12 PM
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StillStanding StillStanding is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTULLOCK View Post
CR....

You are way, way outta line here. You know I am a guy that talks about mercy and grace all the time. I am a guy for grace. But God is the one that gives the grace. CC is coming from a different point of view than we are on this. He is friends with the ex and knows some behind the scene stories. I do not think it is fair to pull out the "you-without-sin-cast-the-first-stone" thing. We have all sinned. CC is not saying he has not sinned. Infact, he said he has no problem with him, but he does not support ME's ministry by buying tapes and such. Come on!
Thanks for posting this!

Some of us do know a little more inside info on ME!
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  #157  
Old 07-13-2007, 12:18 PM
chaotic_resolve chaotic_resolve is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTULLOCK View Post
CR....

You are way, way outta line here. You know I am a guy that talks about mercy and grace all the time. I am a guy for grace. But God is the one that gives the grace. CC is coming from a different point of view than we are on this. He is friends with the ex and knows some behind the scene stories. I do not think it is fair to pull out the "you-without-sin-cast-the-first-stone" thing. We have all sinned. CC is not saying he has not sinned. Infact, he said he has no problem with him, but he does not support ME's ministry by buying tapes and such. Come on!

















Tullock . . . yeah you talk about grace and mercy all the time. You also use it as a license to do all your dirty deeds...

Like :sshhh AND

So, I'm just gonna say . . . .







































neener neener



So what's it gonna be? Go watch a movie or hang out with Pastor Goldsberry and the BeingOne group from Christ Life Church? I was thinking about checking out the improve in Scottsdale, since the last time you and I took the youth group SOMEONE forgot to make a reservation and we weren't able to get tickets. I won't say who that was . . . but I believe it was.... YOU!

PM, call or text and let me know. I gotta see what the rest of the crew is doing also.
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  #158  
Old 07-13-2007, 12:21 PM
chaotic_resolve chaotic_resolve is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pianoman View Post
Thanks for posting this!

Some of us do know a little more inside info on ME!
And this makes you God-like in that you can cast stones at him for his past sins? Too bad we can't read of your indiscretions and sins in the paper, online; or watch them on the nightly news...

Good thing you're perfect, cause God knows most of the rest of us aren't.

Make sure you keep it plugged in.
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  #159  
Old 07-13-2007, 12:25 PM
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Jack Shephard Jack Shephard is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaotic_resolve View Post

















Tullock . . . yeah you talk about grace and mercy all the time. You also use it as a license to do all your dirty deeds...

Like :sshhh AND

So, I'm just gonna say . . . .







































neener neener



So what's it gonna be? Go watch a movie or hang out with Pastor Goldsberry and the BeingOne group from Christ Life Church? I was thinking about checking out the improve in Scottsdale, since the last time you and I took the youth group SOMEONE forgot to make a reservation and we weren't able to get tickets. I won't say who that was . . . but I believe it was.... YOU!

PM, call or text and let me know. I gotta see what the rest of the crew is doing also.
Dude...it was not I that did not do the reservations. It was Josh's idea and he dropped the ball.

UMMMM I will have to clear it with the misses, but I am game for any of it.

But just for the sake the "spiritual forum" lets go hang with the pastor.
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  #160  
Old 07-13-2007, 01:37 PM
chaotic_resolve chaotic_resolve is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTULLOCK View Post
Dude...it was not I that did not do the reservations. It was Josh's idea and he dropped the ball.

UMMMM I will have to clear it with the misses, but I am game for any of it.

But just for the sake the "spiritual forum" lets go hang with the pastor.
Sure, blame it on Josh! Actually you're right. It was his idea . . . because he first wanted to go to the dinner theater thing, which was waayyyy too expensive for the kids.

Be nice, buy her flowers and ask real sweet-like if she'll unlock the ball and chain for a few hours.
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