San Diego UPC Choir TEARS IT UP with Michael English and Mark Lowry

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

This makes the problem discussing with these guys very simple they do not believe the Apostolic message. The man can dump on an Apostolic icon like Elder Bean and suggest these 2 false prophets who neither were saved and sent thousands to Hell with their false doctrine as men of God. That is the problem. Nothing makes it more evident than this absurdity.

Brother Epley, I agree to a point, however, even with the thousands you say are lost because of these men, aren't you taking the power out of the hands of the Holy Spirit? No one forced anyone to believe anything.

Isn't it worth it for a man to have some regard, regardless if he is off base religiously, to have lead at least one man toward the Lord Jesus?

Men plant, men water, but the Lord giveth the increase.

I do not agree with those dudes, however I am not willing to paint them with the same brush as a satanist either.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Chewy

Brother Epley, I agree to a point, however, even with the thousands you say are lost because of these men, aren't you taking the power out of the hands of the Holy Spirit? No one forced anyone to believe anything.

Isn't it worth it for a man to have some regard, regardless if he is off base religiously, to have lead at least one man toward the Lord Jesus?

Men plant, men water, but the Lord giveth the increase.

I do not agree with those dudes, however I am not willing to paint them with the same brush as a satanist either.

It is true the followers are blind however they might have heard the truth and been saved if a false prophet had not took advantage of their sincerity and replaces a lie for the truth. I believe with all my heart blood is on the hands of false prophets. Deception is the most daming sin of any age. In the garden it was deception, a lie instead of the truth.

[SDG]

Would teaching something that's not in the bible [extrabiblical] also get the Epley "false prophet" tag? Because standards as taught by many... would be deserving as such.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Would teaching something that's not in the bible [extrabiblical] also get the Epley "false prophet" tag? Because standards as taught by many... would be deserving as such.

Dan this is not a 'standard' issue however posts like these demostrate and give credence to what we say "first standard then the doctrine." Falwell hated Pentecostals he evicted them from their building-expelled them from his college yet you can relate to him in somewhat adoration but dispise(or though it sounds) Apostolic preachers.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Dan this is not a 'standard' issue however posts like these demostrate and give credence to what we say "first standard then the doctrine." Falwell hated Pentecostals he evicted them from their building-expelled them from his college yet you can relate to him in somewhat adoration but dispise(or though it sounds) Apostolic preachers.

You mean he expelled them in the same way you have expelled trinitarians from your pulpit?????

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

You mean he expelled them in the same way you have expelled trinitarians from your pulpit?????

Yes but I am full of hate and he is full of love.

[South of I 90]

Originally Posted by CC1

I just get frustrated with those among us who pass off repeated massive moral failures as something we should just ignore.

You have done the exact things in your posts you accuse me of. None of my statements ever condemmed Michael English to hell. I said I hope he has sincerely straigtened out,etc.

Let me ask you a hypothetical question to test your seeming position that no matter what the nature and magnitude of repeated moral failures are we should still treat a person as if they never happened (or never repeatedly kept on happening);

If a pedophile sex offender prays through and gets saved do you treat him exactly as you would any other person praying through? Do you allow him to teach Sunday School? Do you allow him around children unsupervised? Is there at least any period of time where you would want to observe that he indeed has changed?

The point you miss about people like ME is that there is a price to pay for your sin. God forgives you but the sin has consequences. In the case of fornication or adultery many times the consequence is a child. God forgives the sexual sin but that child is the result of that sin and must be dealt with as a responsibility for the parties involved. Doesn't mean God has forgiven any less or that the person is any less saved.

Such is the same with those in ministry or christian entertainment. When they have major moral failures they pay the price of having lost their credibility.

There is absolutely nothing wrong in the world with that happening. Perhaps over a sustained period of time of walking upright they can gain much of that credibility back. They should rejoice in the fact they are forgiven and saved and other christians ought to treat them with love, dignity, and respect.

Just because they are forigven and other christians ought to believe and accept that is not the same as saying that other christians should act as if nothing ever happened and keep on supporting their careers or ministries.

That is the only point I made. You are the one misconstruing things by insinuating I am somehow being unfair or mean to ME or not accepting his position in Christ.

I think one of the worst things in the world is for high profile people in Christianity to have major moral failures and people to just act like it never happened as your posts suggest to me.

Good post CC

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

You mean he exspelled them in the same way you have expelled trinitarians from your pulpit?????

Expelled????????????????????????????????????

You must be enrolled to be expelled and NONE have neen enrolled here to preach. I would rather burn the church down than have a Trinitarian preach here. Trinitarians are welcome and they come and we roll the red carpet out for them AS VISITORS. Glad to have them but to preach them? Not as long as this short-bald head preacher is pastoring here. Trinitarians and worldly politicians are NOT invited to our plaform but they are more than welcome on our pews and WE MAKE THEM FEEL WELCOME if they are telling the truth.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by CC1

I just get frustrated with those among us who pass off repeated massive moral failures as something we should just ignore.

You have done the exact things in your posts you accuse me of. None of my statements ever condemmed Michael English to hell. I said I hope he has sincerely straigtened out,etc.

Let me ask you a hypothetical question to test your seeming position that no matter what the nature and magnitude of repeated moral failures are we should still treat a person as if they never happened (or never repeatedly kept on happening);

If a pedophile sex offender prays through and gets saved do you treat him exactly as you would any other person praying through? Do you allow him to teach Sunday School? Do you allow him around children unsupervised? Is there at least any period of time where you would want to observe that he indeed has changed?

The point you miss about people like ME is that there is a price to pay for your sin. God forgives you but the sin has consequences. In the case of fornication or adultery many times the consequence is a child. God forgives the sexual sin but that child is the result of that sin and must be dealt with as a responsibility for the parties involved. Doesn't mean God has forgiven any less or that the person is any less saved.

Such is the same with those in ministry or christian entertainment. When they have major moral failures they pay the price of having lost their credibility.

There is absolutely nothing wrong in the world with that happening. Perhaps over a sustained period of time of walking upright they can gain much of that credibility back. They should rejoice in the fact they are forgiven and saved and other christians ought to treat them with love, dignity, and respect.

Just because they are forigven and other christians ought to believe and accept that is not the same as saying that other christians should act as if nothing ever happened and keep on supporting their careers or ministries.

That is the only point I made. You are the one misconstruing things by insinuating I am somehow being unfair or mean to ME or not accepting his position in Christ.

I think one of the worst things in the world is for high profile people in Christianity to have major moral failures and people to just act like it never happened as your posts suggest to me.

This is just good common sense.

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Expelled????????????????????????????????????

You must be enrolled to be expelled and NONE have neen enrolled here to preach. I would rather burn the church down than have a Trinitarian preach here. Trinitarians are welcome and they come and we roll the red carpet out for them AS VISITORS. Glad to have them but to preach them? Not as long as this short-bald head preacher is pastoring here. Trinitarians and worldly politicians are NOT invited to our plaform but they are more than welcome on our pews and WE MAKE THEM FEEL WELCOME if they are telling the truth.

This is how it should be.