IT is the Holy Ghost!

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

We want to say the bible says its so ... but is it the bible or the translator that uses the word it????

Just examining this topic from the translation given to us by the KJV translators is like an art connoisseur trying to analyze the hues and strokes of Da Vinci's Mona Lisa from a black and white print.

Certainly I am not a Greek study. I used to know a little Greek but he died. Other than that, I have to take the word of those who say that they know the difference.

However, I am sure that God is quite competent in the work of delivering to me the Word that He would have me to have. He is the overseer of His own Word. I think he did an excellent job for thousands of years.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

We want to say the bible says its so ... but is it the bible or the translator that uses the word it????

Just examining this topic from the translation given to us by the KJV translators is like an art connoisseur trying to analyze the hues and strokes of Da Vinci's Mona Lisa from a black and white print.

very very few bibles are word for word translations and even then a word is often translated as more than one word which might include an article or a pronoun to help us understand it better in english.

English is not greek. If the greek has a neuter noun and the english translation might require an article or a pronoun, that is going to be neuter too unless the translators are doctrinally biased

[SDG]

The Jewish believer in OT times would not even dare to pronounce of write the name of God ... it would astonish me ... that the would then turn around and refer to the Spirit of God as an it as we use it today. And apparently after close examination ... of the original texts it is not used ....

The Jewish believer has always referred to God as He.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

The Jewish believer in OT times would not even dare to pronounce of write the name of God ... it would astonish me ... that the would then turn around and refer to the Spirit of God as an it as we use it today. And apparently after close examination ... of the original texts it is not used ....

How would you have all the passages phrased?

Could you post a few?

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

How would you have all the passages phrased?

Could you post a few?

My translation is irrelevant ....

Let's look at the NIV and NAS ... who apparently did not use the creative license of the KJV translators ... these are the verses included in Eliseus' exegesis

NIV

Isaiah 3:16
16 Look in the scroll of the LORD and read:
None of these will be missing,
not one will lack her mate.
For it is his mouth that has given the order,
and his Spirit will gather them together.

NAS

6Seek from the (A)book of the LORD, and read:
Not one of these will be missing;
None will lack its mate
For (B)His mouth has commanded,
And His Spirit has gathered them.

NO IT!!!
----------------------------
JOHN 1:32

NIV

32Then John gave this testimony: "I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him.


NAS
32John (A)testified saying, "(B)I have seen the Spirit descending as a dove out of heaven, and He remained upon Him.

NO IT!!!

------------------------------------------------

1 PETER 1:11

NIV
11trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.

NAS

1seeking to know what person or time (A)the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He (B)predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow.

NO IT!!!!

-------------------------------------------

In First John we find the word it ... but it is not modifying the word Spirit ... but the word is ... the verb to be.

NIV

6This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.


We could use any word there for Spirit and it has nothing to do w/ noun Spirit...

I.E. ... IT IS THE LORD THAT BEARETH WITNESS ...

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

My translation is irrelevant ....

Let's look at the NIV and NAS ... who apparently did not use the creative license of the KJV translators ... these are the verses included in Eliseus' exegesis

NIV

Isaiah 3:16
16 Look in the scroll of the LORD and read:
None of these will be missing,
not one will lack her mate.
For it is his mouth that has given the order,
and his Spirit will gather them together.

NAS

6Seek from the (A)book of the LORD, and read:
Not one of these will be missing;
None will lack its mate
For (B)His mouth has commanded,
And His Spirit has gathered them.

NO IT!!!
----------------------------
JOHN 1:32

NIV

32Then John gave this testimony: "I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him.


NAS
32John (A)testified saying, "(B)I have seen the Spirit descending as a dove out of heaven, and He remained upon Him.

NO IT!!!

------------------------------------------------

1 PETER 1:11

NIV
11trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.

NAS

1seeking to know what person or time (A)the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He (B)predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow.

NO IT!!!!

-------------------------------------------

In First John we find the word it ... but it is not modifying the word Spirit ... but the word is ... the verb to be.

NIV

6This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.


We could use any word there for Spirit and it has nothing to do w/ noun Spirit...

I.E. ... IT IS THE LORD THAT BEARETH WITNESS ...

Daniel,
I never said anything you put out was "irrelevant". I said the thought of "it" being confusing when it isn't is irrelevant, IMHO!

The KJV, IMHO, is saying the same thing as what you just quoted above. At least, that is how I have always read it. So, in researching and putting them side by side, and being that all translations confirm the same message, it's a moot point.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Daniel,
I never said anything you put out was "irrelevant". I said the thought of "it" being confusing when it isn't is irrelevant, IMHO!

The KJV, IMHO, is saying the same thing as what you just quoted above. At least, that is how I have always read it. So, in researching and putting them side by side, and being that all translations confirm the same message, it's a moot point.

In examining the main idea ... or big picture the message is the similar... but the argument here is not the overall message but if it's okay or acceptable to use the Word "it" in referring to the Spirit of God ... a weak argument, IMHO, has been put forth that because a poor translation in these instances refers to the Spirit as it ... then somehow it vindicates our modern usage of it in our circles. The writer of the scriptures apparently did not use it .... as connoted in the English language ...

The details ... tell a different story

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

The Jewish believer in OT times would not even dare to pronounce of write the name of God ... it would astonish me ... that the would then turn around and refer to the Spirit of God as an it as we use it today. And apparently after close examination ... of the original texts it is not used ....

The Jewish believer has always referred to God as He.

Uh...it was not until a LONG time later that this superstition became the norm. Yes they did say and write it...we need only look to the OT where we have examples of them saying the name. However they were told NOT to take the NAME in vain and never told NOT to refer to Spirit as a neuter gender it or feminine she. Spirit is generally a neuter gender word, in our language. It's neutral and we are talking about translations INTO our language

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Uh...it was not until a LONG time later that this superstition became the norm. Yes they did say and write it...we need only look to the OT where we have examples of them saying the name. However they were told NOT to take the NAME in vain and never told NOT to refer to Spirit as a neuter gender it or feminine she. Spirit is generally a neuter gender word, in our language. It's neutral and we are talking about translations INTO our language

and other translations, the NIV and NAS, which I provided, are consistent in harmonizing the fact that God is referred to as He throughout scripture ... not an it.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

and other translations, the NIV and NAS, which I provided, are consistent in harmonizing the fact that God is referred to as He throughout scripture ... not an it.

That's nice Dan you have your translations you like. So how does that interact with what I said? Spirit, in the OT, is usually a feminine word. Spirit in the NT is a neuter word. If either of them were to take a corresponding pronoun, it would be feminine and neuter respectively