Interesting article on the need for Apostolic TV..

[bdlooney]

Originally Posted by NLYP

So you are saying that they should be there 24/7????
Seems to me having a 24/7 church program would be alot more conveient for all those involved.I know I would not want my Pastor over all day everyday.

1.
So the truth finally comes out!! The big push for TV is not for evangelism but convenience. It would be much easier to ask the shut-ins to turn to channel 4 than drive over and actually visit, minister and pray with them.

I am not an "Elder" in ministry and this is only my 23rd post on AFF but I pray to God that I never get to the place that I would make this type of decision based upon the convenience factor.

2.
What?!?! Having the Pastor there 24/7??
I doubt that they would be watching the program 24/7.

Originally Posted by Chewy

Sounds like you are more worried about your reputation than exhausting all means to communicate the Gospel.

If it lead ONE person to Jesus wouldn't it be worth it? If it lead or compelled someone to tell someone else or lead them to the Lord, wouldn't it be worth it?

What is the worth of one soul? Can you be so sure it won't be effective to reach that ONE soul?

I think your post characterizes the entire mentality of reputation above all things, including souls.

Have all means been exhausted already? Is TV the final frontier when all else has failed, or is it that we have failed all else?

How many souls are we willing to loose to win that one that you are so concerned for and might that one soul have been reached, with many others, if the movement would actually move and get off the pew.

Originally Posted by bdlooney

1.
So the truth finally comes out!! The big push for TV is not for evangelism but convenience. It would be much easier to ask the shut-ins to turn to channel 4 than drive over and actually visit, minister and pray with them.

I am not an "Elder" in ministry and this is only my 23rd post on AFF but I pray to God that I never get to the place that I would make this type of decision based upon the convenience factor.

2.
What?!?! Having the Pastor there 24/7??
I doubt that they would be watching the program 24/7.

There is more truth to the agenda and propaganda than that, but thou hast a sharp eye.

1 Fleshalionians 2:3 Let thou thine boop tube do thy bidding.

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

It is well written but rather being in advocation of television it exposes the obligation this pastor and church family had to this dear saint. With all the tapes and cd's available and young suppose to be preachers sitting around Pentecostal churches this is an indictment to them. When I started preaching my pastor sent me to the rest homes weekly. We sang and preached and visited. I would hate to think God had this neglect on my record. This congregation does not need a television program they need a good praying through to see their obligations to widows and shut ins. The tube will not and cannot ease the conscience of what the church should be doing PERSONALLY.
Cancel a golf game I suggest and church outing and do what God commanded to do to 'visit widows in their afflictions.'

Outstanding Post! Forgive them Elder, for they know not what they do. This is the new world order society wherein we rely on technology, medicine, and machines to do it all for us.

[OP_Carl]

Originally Posted by bdlooney

1.
So the truth finally comes out!! The big push for TV is not for evangelism but convenience. It would be much easier to ask the shut-ins to turn to channel 4 than drive over and actually visit, minister and pray with them.

I am not an "Elder" in ministry and this is only my 23rd post on AFF but I pray to God that I never get to the place that I would make this type of decision based upon the convenience factor.

2.
What?!?! Having the Pastor there 24/7??
I doubt that they would be watching the program 24/7.

Televising services and/or being on TBN is of dubious value.

We've got to be careful, however, because this is not the only aspect of the larger television debate.

There are some valid points in the argument for advertising our Apostolic churches on TV. Placing ad spots on local secular channels would reach a larger target audience. Then the question becomes, 'what do we put in those adds?' Face time of Pastor Handsome telling about all of the programs? A bit of the choir hitting the best part of their best song? A close up of Sister Screech Owl doing the jerky shockamoo like she's a rag doll in the jaws of a pit bull? Or just a teaser to indicate that things might be different, or more welcoming? What risk do we take on that we might be providing false advertising?

Then, once they get established, do we tell the people that we reached via television that it's time for them to take their televisions to the curb? It's a bad influence, after all . . .

Originally Posted by OP_Carl

Well, I really wasn't thinking about reputation. But you may have a point.

What I am giving here is an estimation that it won't be effective. All we're going to get, when we're on the air, are a bunch of baptists and charismatics yelling at the TV about grace, trinity, and pharisees. The lost aren't going to tune in. The ones that do are going to assume we're just like all the rest.

The money and effort is better spent on other venues of outreach.

It's also going to introduce some funny quirks, such as pastors admonishing their saints to not believe everything they see on TV, except on channel 9 between 10 and noon. Don't let television influence your life, unless it's my program. I think it's funny already!

Ask David about reputation.

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind

This strawman would hold credulance more so if those on TV were having sweeping numbers due to TV alone as outreach.

A good sales campaign always has support from various segments of the enterprise. The marketing segment alone cannot make for a successful enterprise. That is pretty much a given.

Even business marketing will tell you the best form of growth is one-on-one referrals. TV is expensive and about as effective as direct maill 1 % of saturation.

T.V. is expensive but I never of Swaggart or even Bishop Fulton Sheen paying for it out of their own bank account. Viewers heaped money upon them as they are now doing upon Paul and Jan Crotch. Drunks will send in money to support it as will people who will never go to church...regardless.

But as far as the one-on-one marketing campaign is concerned, I would agree with you. But, so far as I know, there is not an Apostolic denomination that is conducting a one-on-one campaign except the Mormons and the Jehovah Witnesses...and they are not Apostolic. Perhaps your church is conducting a successful one-on-one campaign?

In regards to the statistics that you quoted about direct mail vs t.v. saturation, this is a statistic that I would keep to myself, careful to not let that number get out, if I were against t.v. promotion. That one percent is a powerfully compelling argument FOR t.v. World population is 5 + billion souls. One percent of that would be enough to make a couple of angels rejoice over their salvation.

I once visited with a Lutheran pastor that I knew when he first moved to Houston to begin a church. Now, only a few years later on this certain visit, he told me that he now had more than two thousand members and a nice new sanctuary and a school too. I marveled that he had accomplished so much in about ten or twelve years. I asked him how did he do it? He explained that he had received a Parish from his denomination to work with only a very few people to work with in the beginning. He then got those automatic telephone dialing machines that called people all day long up until 9:00 PM with a message. He had several of those things working day and night, seven days. At some point, his congregation built up high enough to reach critical mass. From there, things sort of took off. At the time of the visit, he no longer had the automatic telephone dialing machines.

I don't know if that would work today since people have become so resistant to those dumb machines calling you just about the time you sit down to eat or go to the bathroom. But, television is still the most powerful marketing device ever invented. At least, people can elect to turn those things on or off at will.

Originally Posted by OP_Carl

Well, I really wasn't thinking about reputation. But you may have a point.

What I am giving here is an estimation that it won't be effective. All we're going to get, when we're on the air, are a bunch of baptists and charismatics yelling at the TV about grace, trinity, and pharisees. The lost aren't going to tune in. The ones that do are going to assume we're just like all the rest.

The money and effort is better spent on other venues of outreach.

It's also going to introduce some funny quirks, such as pastors admonishing their saints to not believe everything they see on TV, except on channel 9 between 10 and noon. Don't let television influence your life, unless it's my program. I think it's funny already!

Wow, some of you are looking at this in a worldly sense. You think that TV will relieve the church of its duties to tell people about the Lord. Since when do we operate with the mindset of "IF WE BUILD IT, THEY WILL COME!"??

TV ministry, Church, and custom websites all have the exact same thing in common. People will not go if they are not invited, people will not listen if they are not invited, people will not tune in if they are not told.

How effective would TV be if we went to the nursing homes and hospitals, and with our testimony offer to sit and watch the broadcast with them, answer questions, and follow up?

I guess some are willing to let TV alone do all the work, but c'mon man.

Originally Posted by Theophilus

Have all means been exhausted already? Is TV the final frontier when all else has failed, or is it that we have failed all else?

How many souls are we willing to loose to win that one that you are so concerned for and might that one soul have been reached, with many others, if the movement would actually move and get off the pew.

What other means would you suggest? The days of 1950's door knocking has gone the way of the Edsel and Dot.com millionaires.

Again, the traditional apostolic mindset is this: Maintain our reputation and status quo above all, despite the FACT that the results of ANY and EVERY evangelistic effort are proportional to the effort put forth.

TV has become a tarbaby for the Apostolic Church.

Originally Posted by Chewy

What other means would you suggest? The days of 1950's door knocking has gone the way of the Edsel and Dot.com millionaires.

Again, the traditional apostolic mindset is this: Maintain our reputation and status quo above all, despite the FACT that the results of ANY and EVERY evangelistic effort are proportional to the effort put forth.

TV has become a tarbaby for the Apostolic Church.

Who said any thing about the status quo? You?

You suppose now that door knocking cannot reach "just one?"

The FACT of TV "results" is certainly on display and NONE of it is of God.

You're right about maintaining a credible reputation as opposed to selling out to the mind-numbing tap dance. I'm guilty as charged.