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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


 
 
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Old 02-27-2007, 08:28 AM
Steve Epley's Avatar
Steve Epley Steve Epley is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabellius View Post
I believe that Justification occurs before any baptism. I believe that Justification refers, naturally, to the declaring of an individual as righteous. God declares us just. How else could the Spirt of God enter Cornelius (c.f. Acts 10:1-46) prior to water baptism?

I believe that baptism requires a synergistic effort and that it means both--symbolic and that genuine spiritual realities are conferred at water baptism. Symbolicly, we are buried with Him in the likeness of His death (Colossians 2:12) and are identified with Christ at baptism. Literally, we are now in the "Kingdom of God"; have a record of sin with a penalty of death, remitted or discharged.

How can one "need" something yet receiving what is needed is not important? No analogy is perfect, but here goes one. When HP tells me that a power cord is needed to operate my laptop then I would logically apply a severe degree of importance to the power cord. Because, if I fail in this then my laptop will not be operable. In other words, I do not think we can make a logical distinction between needing to be baptized and baptism essentiality, as it regards baptism alone.

Alicea's view is an anachronism. I cannot substantiate this presently (not enough time), but I believe the biblical writers as well as many trinitarian fathers placed very strong opinions about baptism and a good amount held to baptismal regeneration (baptismal regeneration is not the position of myself nor the UPCI). I believe that the idea of baptism being optional is anachronistic to the normative view.
My friend Sab and I have a major disagreement here rather than justification a measure of sanctification has taken place in that he separated himself to seek God and God sent him a preacher with sayings words that complete the sanctification and declare him justified by giving the the HG and remitting his sins in baptism. I think you have the cart before the horse though we are own the same train. Now Sab you are smarter than I and certainly more wordy but sorry you are wrong on this but we are yet friends before you scald me think it through. The religious world says justified THEN sanctified but actually everything is SET APART unto God and from this world that is repentance BEFORE justification takes place!
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