Firearms Refresher Course

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

So if a man was raping your wife and daughters you'd just stand by and let him. What if you prayed and he didn't stop?

I would protect my family without hesitating even to the use of deadly force. No it's not bravado speaking it the love for my family. Now once the perp is down and of no harm then I'd be glad to lay hands on him prayfully for his life to be restored.

So, did the father's of those Saul (later Paul) persecuted love their families when they did not fight back? Why did they not react as you describe? As a matter of fact, why is it there is no biblical or historical record of the early church responding your way?

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

There you go Brother Carl, righteousness worth KILLING for?

Do you men see what you're typing? This is not some John Wayne ethic.
Jesus said turn the other cheek.

Righteousness:
Acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin

Jesus taught to not retaliate, not to repay evil with evil. How are you all truning the words of Christ around?

ED, this is what is amazing me. I am new to AFF, but not to the apostolic faith. I am amazed how hard some are fighting for their right to kill another human being. Are they forgetting that all men are made in God's image? Are they forgetting the testimony such a killing will leave with the deceased's family? How hard it would be for that family to ever listen to the witness of Christ from the one who pulled the trigger? This would be true regardless whether the act was justified or not.

What about Cain and Able? It was the shedding of another man’s blood that set a man wondering without repentance. Death, of all things of man, is final. You cannot go back and restore a life taken. Saul was worthy of death, but Jesus chose to change him from his murderous ways. If the church had defended themselves and killed Saul, would it have been justified by man’s standard? Of course. But what of God’s plan? Would this not then have been man taking God’s Will into his own hand? When is this EVER acceptable? I still believe that Jesus has ALL POWER in heaven and IN EARTH. He is still a man’s best defense.

Keep up the good posts my Brother!

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Esther

Bump for Lost &

My answer to this is:

Ephesians 4:26-27
(26) Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
(27) Neither give place to the devil.

The devil is the one who desires to see anger and wrath in man. Perfect love casts out all fear. He uses fear to cause man to fall to sin's entrapments.

Look agains at what Paul wrote:

Romans 12:18
(18) If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

This is not a choice; it is a statement of spiritual maturity. This is not a license to retaliate or kill, but a law that says you should be above this and do the rest of what he writes:

Romans 12:19-21
(19) Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
(20) Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
(21) Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

This is exactly what Jesus and His apostles did.

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by Lost and Found

ED, this is what is amazing me. I am new to AFF, but not to the apostolic faith. I am amazed how hard some are fighting for their right to kill another human being. Are they forgetting that all men are made in God's image? Are they forgetting the testimony such a killing will leave with the deceased's family? How hard it would be for that family to ever listen to the witness of Christ from the one who pulled the trigger? This would be true regardless whether the act was justified or not.

What about Cain and Able? It was the shedding of another man’s blood that set a man wondering without repentance. Death, of all things of man, is final. You cannot go back and restore a life taken. Saul was worthy of death, but Jesus chose to change him from his murderous ways. If the church had defended themselves and killed Saul, would it have been justified by man’s standard? Of course. But what of God’s plan? Would this not then have been man taking God’s Will into his own hand? When is this EVER acceptable? I still believe that Jesus has ALL POWER in heaven and IN EARTH. He is still a man’s best defense.

Keep up the good posts my Brother!

this discussion may have drifted some. the notion that I am fighting for my right to kill another human being isnt exactly correct. God forbid that such a thing would ever take place! by will or accident, I never want to find myself in such a situation.

However, for me the discussion is best encapuslated as one where i defend my right to keep and bare arms. It is at the core of what it means to be American. 300 million law abiding citizens with handguns goes a long way to keeping their governement in check.

true, the military could run over all 300 million with scarely a thought, but the fact that the government would have to stand up to such a number is daunting enough to be a check for the system.

My desire is to do my part as a citizen of this nation. NOT to find an excuse to kill anyone.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Lost and Found

ED, this is what is amazing me. I am new to AFF, but not to the apostolic faith. I am amazed how hard some are fighting for their right to kill another human being. Are they forgetting that all men are made in God's image? Are they forgetting the testimony such a killing will leave with the deceased's family? How hard it would be for that family to ever listen to the witness of Christ from the one who pulled the trigger? This would be true regardless whether the act was justified or not.

What about Cain and Able? It was the shedding of another man’s blood that set a man wondering without repentance. Death, of all things of man, is final. You cannot go back and restore a life taken. Saul was worthy of death, but Jesus chose to change him from his murderous ways. If the church had defended themselves and killed Saul, would it have been justified by man’s standard? Of course. But what of God’s plan? Would this not then have been man taking God’s Will into his own hand? When is this EVER acceptable? I still believe that Jesus has ALL POWER in heaven and IN EARTH. He is still a man’s best defense.

Keep up the good posts my Brother!

JESUS is the ONLY power in heaven and earth!

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Ferd

this discussion may have drifted some. the notion that I am fighting for my right to kill another human being isnt exactly correct. God forbid that such a thing would ever take place! by will or accident, I never want to find myself in such a situation.

However, for me the discussion is best encapuslated as one where i defend my right to keep and bare arms. It is at the core of what it means to be American. 300 million law abiding citizens with handguns goes a long way to keeping their governement in check.

true, the military could run over all 300 million with scarely a thought, but the fact that the government would have to stand up to such a number is daunting enough to be a check for the system.

My desire is to do my part as a citizen of this nation. NOT to find an excuse to kill anyone.

My dad was a cop. On this he always said, "Don't carry a gun unless you're prepared to use one." A man without a gun cannot easily shoot another human.

[Evang.Benincasa]

The War Prayer

by Mark Twain

It was a time of great and exalting excitement. The country was up in arms, the war was on, in every breast burned the holy fire of patriotism; the drums were beating, the bands playing, the toy pistols popping, the bunched firecrackers hissing and spluttering; on every hand and far down the receding and fading spread of roofs and balconies a fluttering wilderness of flags flashed in the sun; daily the young volunteers marched down the wide avenue gay and fine in their new uniforms, the proud fathers and mothers and sisters and sweethearts cheering them with voices choked with happy emotion as they swung by; nightly the packed mass meetings listened, panting, to patriot oratory which stirred the deepest deeps of their hearts, and which they interrupted at briefest intervals with cyclones of applause, the tears running down their cheeks the while; in the churches the pastors preached devotion to flag and country, and invoked the God of Battles beseeching His aid in our good cause in outpourings of fervid eloquence which moved every listener. It was indeed a glad and gracious time, and the half dozen rash spirits that ventured to disapprove of the war and cast a doubt upon its righteousness straightway got such a stern and angry warning that for their personal safety's sake they quickly shrank out of sight and offended no more in that way.

Sunday morning came – next day the battalions would leave for the front; the church was filled; the volunteers were there, their young faces alight with martial dreams – visions of the stern advance, the gathering momentum, the rushing charge, the flashing sabers, the flight of the foe, the tumult, the enveloping smoke, the fierce pursuit, the surrender! Then home from the war, bronzed heroes, welcomed, adored, submerged in golden seas of glory! With the volunteers sat their dear ones, proud, happy, and envied by the neighbors and friends who had no sons and brothers to send forth to the field of honor, there to win for the flag, or, failing, die the noblest of noble deaths. The service proceeded; a war chapter from the Old Testament was read; the first prayer was said; it was followed by an organ burst that shook the building, and with one impulse the house rose, with glowing eyes and beating hearts, and poured out that tremendous invocation:



God the all-terrible!
Thou who ordainest!
Thunder thy clarion and lightning thy sword!



Then came the "long" prayer. None could remember the like of it for passionate pleading and moving and beautiful language. The burden of its supplication was, that an ever-merciful and benignant Father of us all would watch over our noble young soldiers, and aid, comfort, and encourage them in their patriotic work; bless them, shield them in the day of battle and the hour of peril, bear them in His mighty hand, make them strong and confident, invincible in the bloody onset; help them to crush the foe, grant to them and to their flag and country imperishable honor and glory…

An aged stranger entered and moved with slow and noiseless step up the main aisle, his eyes fixed upon the minister, his long body clothed in a robe that reached to his feet, his head bare, his white hair descending in a frothy cataract to his shoulders, his seamy face unnaturally pale, pale even to ghastliness. With all eyes following him and wondering, he made his silent way; without pausing, he ascended to the preacher's side and stood there waiting. With shut lids the preacher, unconscious of his presence, continued with his moving prayer, and at last finished it with the words, uttered in fervent appeal, "Bless our arms, grant us the victory, O Lord our God, Father and Protector of our land and flag!"

The stranger touched his arm, motioned him to step aside – which the startled minister did – and took his place. During some moments he surveyed the spellbound audience with solemn eyes, in which burned an uncanny light; then in a deep voice he said:

"I come from the Throne – bearing a message from Almighty God!" The words smote the house with a shock; if the stranger perceived it he gave no attention. "He has heard the prayer of His servant your shepherd, and will grant it if such shall be your desire after I, His messenger, shall have explained to you its import – that is to say, its full import. For it is like unto many of the prayers of men, in that it asks for more than he who utters it is aware of – except he pause and think.

"God's servant and yours has prayed his prayer. Has he paused and taken thought? Is it one prayer? No, it is two – one uttered, the other not. Both have reached the ear of Him who heareth all supplications, the spoken and the unspoken. Ponder this – keep it in mind. If you would beseech a blessing upon yourself, beware! lest without intent you invoke a curse upon a neighbor at the same time. If you pray for the blessing of rain upon your crop which needs it, by that act you are possibly praying for a curse upon some neighbor's crop which may not need rain and can be injured by it.

"You have heard your servant's prayer – the uttered part of it. I am commissioned of God to put into words the other part of it – that part which the pastor – and also you in your hearts – fervently prayed silently. And ignorantly and unthinkingly? God grant that it was so! You heard these words: 'Grant us the victory, O Lord our God!' That is sufficient. The whole of the uttered prayer is compact into those pregnant words. Elaborations were not necessary. When you have prayed for victory you have prayed for many unmentioned results which follow victory – must follow it, cannot help but follow it. Upon the listening spirit of God fell also the unspoken part of the prayer. He commandeth me to put it into words. Listen!

"O Lord our Father, our young patriots, idols of our hearts, go forth to battle – be Thou near them! With them – in spirit – we also go forth from the sweet peace of our beloved firesides to smite the foe. O Lord our God, help us to tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with little children to wander unfriended the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames of summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring Thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it – for our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimage, make heavy their steps, water their way with their tears, stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet! We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him who is the Source of Love, and who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen.

(After a pause) "Ye have prayed it; if ye still desire it, speak! The messenger of the Most High waits!"



It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said.

[TK Burk]

EB, great post! Wow! Makes me wonder if this was not partially why Twain died an atheist.

God was whacking people right and left in the Bible...

[LadyRev]

Lets see now...I personally have 2 shotguns, one muzzleloader, one .22 pistol, three rifles, and a compound bow.

My husband has 2 shotguns, one rifle, one muzzleloader, one .44 mag pistol, one 357 mag, one 9mm, one 308, and a couple other pistols I think...and a compound bow.

We both hunt. He also collects. And we'd both shoot in self defense without hesitation.

When we lived in the Memphis area and a certain man got angry with my husband and threatened to come to our house and do bodily harm to ME, my husband said, go ahead and try it. She'll meet you at the door with a loaded
.44 and she won't hesitate to use it.

Nice gun...knickel plated, pearl grips, belches fire out the barrel, a little hard on the ole wrists though.

But mostly we just hunt...BOW SEASON APPROACHES!