Firearms Refresher Course

First I said the following:

Originally Posted by Brother Strange
Thank you Prax...

When I have more time, I want to discuss the subject of charity. In your classic examples above, here are two very good examples of godly CHARITY.

Charity involves the principle of "the greater good."

Above, I used the word "I" twice and you come back with this radiant pearl:

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Lost and Found

Lots of "I" here. I thought we were to die to our own will and live only to God?

What in the world are you talking about? I don't think you have a clue? I use the word "I" and somehow you think that I have not died to my OWN WILL? Hahaha... You are getting quite comical.

Where did Jesus teach what YOU believe? Where did the Apostles teach what you YOU believe? Where is the history that says the early church taught what YOU believe? Still waiting on all this....

When you are not in bed, you probably jump around and hide more than a Texas Jack Rabbit. If you would quit jumping around as though you had a condition, your concerns could be addressed.

Now hold still for a moment. Quit jumping and a hopping.

First when it is shown that God is a man of WAR and is shown that God told David to PURSUE which resulted in the loss of life in the effort to protect his property and his family, you almost jumped like the cow who jumped over the moon.

Then, that was not good enough for you and then demanded that it be shown where Jesus would have taught or supported such a thought as though the God of the Old Testament was a different God than that of the New.

When it was shown that the God of the Old Testament was the SAME God of the New, you jumped so high as to not been seen, leaving us all dismayed, wondering where you were and where were you going.

It was settled that the God of the Old is the God of the new, you jumped again. Then...and THEN, that was not good enough for you. You wanted to know where Jesus taught bearing the sword for protection. You were shown that Peter and the other of the disciples were not rebuked for having a sword but rather was told to BUY one...WHATEVER FOR? Maybe a wall display?

Next, you made the biggest JUMP of all. That was not good enough, you wanted to know, "OK, where did any of the Apostles teach that AFTER PENTECOST?"

Man alive!!!!!

After all of this jumping around, it left Nancy Pelosi more dizzy than she has ever been.

Then rethorically, I asked where was it taught in the book of Jude that we are not to brandish the sword at the appropriate time. No answer from you was forthcoming. You see, after awhile this discussion just degenerates into the "silly" zone.

But never mind. I use the word "I" twice in a previous post and you assumed:

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Lost and Found

Lots of "I" here. I thought we were to die to our own will and live only to God?

I have about decided that you are too much candy for the nickel.

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Again, if we were talking about vengeance....rending evil for evil, then this verse applies. But this verse has nothing to do with protecting innocent lives. Is it a good thing to protect the innocent? Or is it an evil thing? Is it an evil thing to stop a man with a gun from killing others indiescrimatly, those that are unarmed and have done nothing to warrant such killing? Is that evil or good?

Prax,

IMHO, any intentional taking of a life is evil in these new testament times.

In much of the book of Acts, and through most of the writing of the new testament, the disciples had evil men trying to kill them because of their belief in Jesus Christ. Yet nowhere do we find that they took up arms to defend themselves from these evil men. They ran away, scattering themselves, and hiding from the opposition.

I find scriptures that state that we are to "do unto others as we would have them do unto us", and scriptures that say "render not evil for evil", and scriptures that say "Love seeketh not its own". But I find no new testament scriptures that back up the claim to take up arms to defend ones family and self against an intruder.

So what I am asking of you or anyone that holds that view is since I have posted several verses that deal with not defending ones self to show scripturally where the bible allows such to be done. Not saying it ain't there. I just don't see it.

If everyone thought like the pacifists, our country would not even exist.

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Sheltiedad

If everyone thought like the pacifists, our country would not even exist.

And all the atheists shouted, "AMEN!"

Where is God found in your statement? Without a Christian's gun God could not take care of a country? God needs a Christian's gun for that? I just thought you might want to reconsider what you are saying.

Pacifism is not synonymous with non-intervention. You can involve yourself and make a difference without needing to carry a weapon or to shoot someone and end their life. The apostles and the early church never shot or killed anyone while establishing God’s kingdom on earth. They trusted God would do as He promised: “Vengeance is MINE. I WILL repay” (Romans 12:19). These saints instead willingly gave their life for their enemies. Anything less would have been seen as an assault against the message of Jesus’ gospel.

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Prax,

IMHO, any intentional taking of a life is evil in these new testament times.

In much of the book of Acts, and through most of the writing of the new testament, the disciples had evil men trying to kill them because of their belief in Jesus Christ. Yet nowhere do we find that they took up arms to defend themselves from these evil men. They ran away, scattering themselves, and hiding from the opposition.

I find scriptures that state that we are to "do unto others as we would have them do unto us", and scriptures that say "render not evil for evil", and scriptures that say "Love seeketh not its own". But I find no new testament scriptures that back up the claim to take up arms to defend ones family and self against an intruder.

So what I am asking of you or anyone that holds that view is since I have posted several verses that deal with not defending ones self to show scripturally where the bible allows such to be done. Not saying it ain't there. I just don't see it.

GREAT post!!

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Lost and Found

And all the atheists shouted, "AMEN!"

Where is God found in your statement? Without a Christian's gun God could not take care of a country? God needs a Christian's gun for that? I just thought you might want to reconsider what you are saying.

Pacifism is not synonymous with non-intervention. You can involve yourself and make a difference without needing to carry a weapon or to shoot someone and end their life. The apostles and the early church never shot or killed anyone while establishing God’s kingdom on earth. They trusted God would do as He promised: “Vengeance is MINE. I WILL repay” (Romans 12:19). These saints instead willingly gave their life for their enemies. Anything less would have been seen as an assault against the message of Jesus’ gospel.

Awesome post! Hey and you did that without the use of an avatar of sickly pale two strips of tender loin looking legs.

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Brother Strange

I have about decided that you are too much candy for the nickel.

Finally, something we can agree on!

Too many scriptures offered by me; none offered by you. I am sure you thought this was too much!

[Evang.Benincasa]

The reason Sheltiedad didn't show the bottom of his pale hairless legs!

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Prax,

IMHO, any intentional taking of a life is evil in these new testament times.

In much of the book of Acts, and through most of the writing of the new testament, the disciples had evil men trying to kill them because of their belief in Jesus Christ. Yet nowhere do we find that they took up arms to defend themselves from these evil men. They ran away, scattering themselves, and hiding from the opposition.

I find scriptures that state that we are to "do unto others as we would have them do unto us", and scriptures that say "render not evil for evil", and scriptures that say "Love seeketh not its own". But I find no new testament scriptures that back up the claim to take up arms to defend ones family and self against an intruder.

So what I am asking of you or anyone that holds that view is since I have posted several verses that deal with not defending ones self to show scripturally where the bible allows such to be done. Not saying it ain't there. I just don't see it.

Very well said, wonderfully done Brother Matthew, wonderfully done.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

I want to ask all you pacificst who would not protect by whatever means possible including the use of a firearm to protect

1. Your wife, the love of your life

2. Your daughter so tender and mild

3. Your beloved son that carries your own name to the next generation

4. Your nation that has afforded you the freedom to worship God

Being the pacificist that you are, you would rather chose to do nothing while this evil character

1. Rapes your wife as you watch him while you pray for him.

2. Ravages your daughter and you chosing not to "render evil for evil."

3. Abuses your son in a horrible manner as he cries out to you begging his daddy for help while daddy does nothing remembering that "veangence is mine, saith the Lord."

4. Allow your nation that has afforded all of the great freedoms to worship God as many times as you choose too, to fall to the powers of a evil tyrant when you have the power to preserve that feedom for yourself and others, choosing rather to "to pray for your enemies."

Are these the choices that you will make when faced with such evil. If so, I can plainly tell you that you do not

1. Deserve the wife that you have.

2. Deserve the beautiful little inoncent daughter that calls you daddy.

3. Deserve a son that will carry on your name to generations to come

4. A nation that has chosen to provide for you all the things that you enjoy so freely given to you by the blood of others, not willing to make the same sacrifice for another generation.

I would recommend that...

1. You tell your wife that if she is raped that you will "pray for her enemy." You should do this in all fairness so that she will know not to depend on you for protection. She may need to decide for herself what to do for protection if that awful day should ever arrive.

2. Give your daughter up for adoption to someone else who would be willing to protect that precious darling.

3. Give your beloved son up for adoption to someone who will teach him that when he becomes a man, it will become his God given duty to provide for and protect his own family. That he must do it as an act of love and devotion as a godly man filled with courage and a conviction of what is right and wrong.

4. Go live in another nation who think the same way that you think and will not fight to preserve what freedoms that they do have. Unfortunately, there is no such nation. They have long ago been swallowed up by an evil nation.

When love does not complel to protect family and nation by whatever means possible, love has fallen short of what God would have it to be. When love is faulty, courage is absent, conviction of what is right has flown away and the person is vulnerable to an evil attack when it will be shown that he never really believed his pacificist doctrine in the first place.

When scriptures are not understood that speak of not taking veangence, loving your enemies, etc., etc., it is very clear that they do not know the mind and attitude of God which has not changed since days of antiquity.

When you wife and daughter is abused and raped in front of your eyes when you have a means to stop it, you cannot even call the police...you will be too busy praying for them. Besides, even if you called the police, you would then be complicit in "rendering evil for evil," because the policeman will definitely STOP the evil man by whatever means possible, including he 9mm glock on his side...doing a job that you should have been doing. After all, the way that you all twist these scriptures that you present in your pacificist ideals, the police render evil for evil every day. So, if you are true to your convictions, you cannot involve the police to render evil for evil.

God has not changed, nor is he brain dead even if some people are.