Divine Flesh - Post Resurrection

[ApostolicTexas]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I think Paul would agree perfectly well. Jesus had a spiritual body upon resurrection. Just as we will. And Jesus CHANGED FORMS.

Mar 16:9 KJV Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

Mar 16:12 KJV After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.

That is why He appeared as the gardener in one instance and they did not know him.

".

No where does it say that...but no where does it say he still has the SAME body He left with either..in fact...The Body of Christ is described today as HIS CHURCH...and Paul also described God

1 tim 1:17- Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Jesus may have appeared in another form to Paul as you describe it but I find it interesting the apostles in Acts 1:9-11 were the last ones to see that body Jesus had when he ressurected..No one has seen him since..I believe when Jesus did appear to Paul on the Road to Damascus He appeared as He is now...a light no man can approach..it was in that type of "form" and NOT the physical spiritual body Jesus arose with..Even in Revelation John saw Jesus it was not a personal in person encounter..John was in the spirit..and I believe John saw Jesus as He is...the Jesus John described in Revelation was not the same Jesus He saw when Jesus arose from the dead..again proving Jesus does not have not the same body today..He arose form the dead with..:P) Jesus today is God omnipresent filling heaven and earth and he is dwelling today within his church on this earth the new Jerusalem..We are the Temple of God...The Kingdom of God is here now..if you have the Holy Ghost...welcome to the Kingdom...

[ApostolicTexas]

Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Eph 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
Eph 1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, Eph 1:23 Which is his body, the fullness of him that filleth all in all.

Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

1Co 12:25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
1Co 12:26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honored, all the members rejoice with it.
1Co 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by ApostolicTexas

No where does it say that...but no where does it say he still has the SAME body He left with either..

In other words, nothing changed. We cannot add to the Word. We cannot contrive any infinite nnumber of possibilities of what COULD HAVE HAPPENED that the Word did not explicitly say happened. That is how the Catholics say that infants can be baptized. If you tell them the bible does not say they can, they respond saying the bible does not say we cannot either.

If the Word did not say anything changed since His resurrection, and the Word says that our bodies shall be fashioned like unto His, then nothing changed, and we shall be glorified physically in body, too. A whole chapter, 1 Corf 15, is about BODIES CHANGING.... not bodies being replaced with something else, or not even something coming out of the bodes and rising without the bodies. THE BODY SOWN IS RAISED AGAIN.

Resurrection is from the term RESURGENCE. RESURGENCE means that something had life, died and had life a second time. What resurges in your doctrine? Nothing! The body you claim that dies does not RESURGE again, but is permanently abandoned forever. Butg in my doctrine, the physical body is alive, then dies and SURGES A SECOND TIME WITH LIFE in the resurrection. THAT is what "resurrection" MEANS. You have no "resurrection" for us. And the "resurrected" body you agree Christ had after the third day you also claim was ABANDONED forever, who-knows-when (?).

A person can imagine any number of things that are "way out there" in imaginative contrivances, and when challenged as to where the bible says that, can always fall back on "Well, the bible does not say it iS NOT true." Who would think that anything not written in the bible IS true, to begin with???

in fact...The Body of Christ is described today as HIS CHURCH...and Paul also described God

So is the church a VILE BODY as in Phil 3:21? Or is Phil 3:21 talking about the physical bodies?

Phi 3:21 KJV Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

It does not stand to reason that just becuase the church is called Christ's body that He cannot have a physical body still. We know that because Adam's wife was called his "body", just as we are called Christ's body, but Adam still retained his personal physical body after that came into being.

Gen 2:23-24 KJV And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. (24) Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

Eph 5:28-32 KJV So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. (29) For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: (30) For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. (31) For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. (32) This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

1 tim 1:17- Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Jesus may have appeared in another form to Paul as you describe it but I find it interesting the apostles in Acts 1:9-11 were the last ones to see that body Jesus had when he ressurected..No one has seen him since..

MANY saw His body. Over 500! That is more than the apostles. And what reason would there be for anyone since then to see it again? Just to priove full preterism incorrect?

1Co 15:5-8 KJV And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: (6) After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. (7) After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. (8) And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

Notice above that Paul, to whom you refer in Acts 9, grouped Himself with the people who saw Christ after His resurrection before Christ ascended and left them in Acts 1. In other words, Paul consider his sighting of Christ to be as "kosher" and valid and on the same level as the sightings made by anyone else, including that of the ACTUAL RESURRECTED BODY FROM THE TOMB that formerly died. Paul did not say he saw a "form" that was totally different in actuality than the body seen by the 500 earlier.

What Paul saw so long after Christ left in Acts 1 was said to be the same thing that over 500 people saw before He left in Acts 1. Just another form. But it was still a FORM as the same body that came from the tomb that appeared to the 2 on the road to Emmaus.

I believe when Jesus did appear to Paul on the Road to Damascus He appeared as He is now...a light no man can approach..it was in that type of "form" and NOT the physical spiritual body Jesus arose with..

The bible does not say that, though. Jesus can appear in various FORMS -- light or not. How does that Prove the body is not one and the same as the one from the tomb that died? It's the SPIRITUAL BODY that He arose with. Nothing says He changed that situation, and there is nothing in the bible to make anyone even think he did change. Why would anyone think that? There is no more reason to think that way than there is to think his body turned into purple polka dots before you claim it vanished out of existence, either. lol

Even in Revelation John saw Jesus it was not a personal in person encounter..John was in the spirit..and I believe John saw Jesus as He is...the Jesus John described in Revelation was not the same Jesus He saw when Jesus arose from the dead..

But you contraidct yourself. You claim John saw Jesus in Spirit, and then say something that has no relation to that thought such as "he was not as he was before he ascended." Anything seen "in the Spirit" is DIFFERENT than actuality. Jesus was seen as a lamb with seven eyes and seven horns "in the spirit". Does that mean he is that now in actuality? Things seen "in the spirit" are things symbolized and full of interpretive meaning.

again proving Jesus does not have not the same body today..

It certainly cannot prove that, or else Jesus is now a lamb with seven eyes and seven horns.

He arose form the dead with..:P) Jesus today is God omnipresent filling heaven and earth and he is dwelling today within his church on this earth

Jesus always was that for all eternity. God is omniprresent. But He was incarnate and said to have been physically resurrected, where no indication exists that He lost that physical form since then. In fact, there is solid evidence that He retains it since we shall see Him again!

the new Jerusalem..We are the Temple of God...The Kingdom of God is here now..if you have the Holy Ghost...welcome to the Kingdom...

Everyone knows we're in the kingdom.

But the bible clearly teaches that the "firstfruits" concept of His resurrection refers to the first of many identical forms to follow. Otherwise, "firstfruits" makes no sense. Firstfruits only refers to the FIRST in the sense of TIMING of resurrection. Nothing more. That is why we read AND AFTERWARD they who are Christ's at his coming -- not "and then invisibly, those who are Christ's at his coming" as if the contrast was physical versus non-physical.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by ApostolicTexas

Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Eph 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
Eph 1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, Eph 1:23 Which is his body, the fullness of him that filleth all in all.

Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

1Co 12:25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
1Co 12:26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honored, all the members rejoice with it.
1Co 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

So is the VILE BODY in Phil 3:21 the church?????

Phi 3:21 KJV Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

[Scott Hutchinson]

John saw one that sat on the throne,He could not have a saw an ethreal body ,He saw a recognizable body.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

John saw one that sat on the throne,He could not have a saw an ethreal body ,He saw a recognizable body.

Amen. Stephen saw it, too!

Act 7:56 KJV And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

[ApostolicTexas]

Originally Posted by mfblume

In other words, nothing changed. We cannot add to the Word. We cannot contrive any infinite nnumber of possibilities of what COULD HAVE HAPPENED that the Word did not explicitly say happened. That is how the Catholics say that infants can be baptized. If you tell them the bible does not say they can, they respond saying the bible does not say we cannot either.

If the Word did not say anything changed since His resurrection, and the Word says that our bodies shall be fashioned like unto His, then nothing changed, and we shall be glorified physically in body, too. A whole chapter, 1 Corf 15, is about BODIES CHANGING.... not bodies being replaced with something else, or not even something coming out of the bodes and rising without the bodies. THE BODY SOWN IS RAISED AGAIN.

Resurrection is from the term RESURGENCE. RESURGENCE means that something had life, died and had life a second time. What resurges in your doctrine? Nothing! The body you claim that dies does not RESURGE again, but is permanently abandoned forever. Butg in my doctrine, the physical body is alive, then dies and SURGES A SECOND TIME WITH LIFE in the resurrection. THAT is what "resurrection" MEANS. You have no "resurrection" for us. And the "resurrected" body you agree Christ had after the third day you also claim was ABANDONED forever, who-knows-when (?).

A person can imagine any number of things that are "way out there" in imaginative contrivances, and when challenged as to where the bible says that, can always fall back on "Well, the bible does not say it iS NOT true." Who would think that anything not written in the bible IS true, to begin with???



So is the church a VILE BODY as in Phil 3:21? Or is Phil 3:21 talking about the physical bodies?



It does not stand to reason that just becuase the church is called Christ's body that He cannot have a physical body still. We know that because Adam's wife was called his "body", just as we are called Christ's body, but Adam still retained his personal physical body after that came into being.





MANY saw His body. Over 500! That is more than the apostles. And what reason would there be for anyone since then to see it again? Just to priove full preterism incorrect?



Notice above that Paul, to whom you refer in Acts 9, grouped Himself with the people who saw Christ after His resurrection before Christ ascended and left them in Acts 1. In other words, Paul consider his sighting of Christ to be as "kosher" and valid and on the same level as the sightings made by anyone else, including that of the ACTUAL RESURRECTED BODY FROM THE TOMB that formerly died. Paul did not say he saw a "form" that was totally different in actuality than the body seen by the 500 earlier.

What Paul saw so long after Christ left in Acts 1 was said to be the same thing that over 500 people saw before He left in Acts 1. Just another form. But it was still a FORM as the same body that came from the tomb that appeared to the 2 on the road to Emmaus.



The bible does not say that, though. Jesus can appear in various FORMS -- light or not. How does that Prove the body is not one and the same as the one from the tomb that died? It's the SPIRITUAL BODY that He arose with. Nothing says He changed that situation, and there is nothing in the bible to make anyone even think he did change. Why would anyone think that? There is no more reason to think that way than there is to think his body turned into purple polka dots before you claim it vanished out of existence, either. lol



But you contraidct yourself. You claim John saw Jesus in Spirit, and then say something that has no relation to that thought such as "he was not as he was before he ascended." Anything seen "in the Spirit" is DIFFERENT than actuality. Jesus was seen as a lamb with seven eyes and seven horns "in the spirit". Does that mean he is that now in actuality? Things seen "in the spirit" are things symbolized and full of interpretive meaning.



It certainly cannot prove that, or else Jesus is now a lamb with seven eyes and seven horns.



Jesus always was that for all eternity. God is omniprresent. But He was incarnate and said to have been physically resurrected, where no indication exists that He lost that physical form since then. In fact, there is solid evidence that He retains it since we shall see Him again!



Everyone knows we're in the kingdom.

But the bible clearly teaches that the "firstfruits" concept of His resurrection refers to the first of many identical forms to follow. Otherwise, "firstfruits" makes no sense. Firstfruits only refers to the FIRST in the sense of TIMING of resurrection. Nothing more. That is why we read AND AFTERWARD they who are Christ's at his coming -- not "and then invisibly, those who are Christ's at his coming" as if the contrast was physical versus non-physical.

I had a nice long response only to be timed out and lost it..may respond may not..I do not have a lot of time..lol..I guess the one thing that sticks out in your post that I want to see you prove


"In fact, there is solid evidence that He retains it since we shall see Him again! "

My scripture 1 Tim 1:17 vs yours?

[ApostolicTexas]

Originally Posted by mfblume

So is the VILE BODY in Phil 3:21 the church?????

Phi 3:21 KJV Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

I was using scripture to describe the BODY OF CHRIST....do you deny this too?

[ApostolicTexas]

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

John saw one that sat on the throne,He could not have a saw an ethreal body ,He saw a recognizable body.

Brother Scott..John was in the spirit bro describing what he saw..he said one LIKE the son of man..But to say this is the same Jesus he saw after ressurection is not kosher..not the same..I believe what John saw in the Spirit was a description of Jesus as He is..in his glory..not in his physical frame he left with

[ApostolicTexas]

Originally Posted by mfblume

!

Let us look at what Stephen saw..Bro Blume you quoted Acts 7:56..but if you back up one it tells what He saw...

7:55-But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

He saw the glory of God...He did not see a literal man standing on a giant right hand..surely you do not believe it like that?

How can someone see the glory of God? 2 Cor 4:6


For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Stephen saw a vision as well...He saw the glory of God..a vision..surely your not making it physical here too?