Firearms Refresher Course

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

I could post verses describing the anger of Christ, but it wouldn't convince you. And I never said He killed anyone.

I can see this is not a productive discussion for me, so I will concede your superior spirituality and just request that you pray for "such a worm as I."

Be blessed.

But THAT is what this thread is about. The right to KILL another human. Read post #1.

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Brother Strange

Matthew, I have not spoken of defending myself. I have no problem with dying as a martyr or suffering any other violence for whatever cause, especially for the cause of Christ.

So you only espouse to defending others, and not yourself?

Yes you can. You defenitely can. No veagence is NOT our hands. That belongs to God alone. However justice and righteousness is in our hands. For instance, capital punishment for certain crimes is justice and it is godly. It is a demonstration of charity to society as a whole to carry out that execution. There are wars that you can engage in and love your neighbor as yourself at the same time. In times like that, you love your neighbor MORE than yourself especially when you are called upon to give YOUR OWN LIFE for the cause of the greater good...which is charity in its highest representation.

Bro, that is a big stretch. Please tell me how I can shoot down my enemy, and love him at the same time? That IS what we are commanded to do, isn't it? Love your enemies.

Yes, Lost said that he would not. He said that he would only trust God and do nothing himself. I hope that he has told his wife not to depend on him to protect her from a rapist.

I think this comment is quite underneath you. BUt none the less, I cannot speak for him, only to say that I did not see where he stated he would hold his wifes hand only while the rapist had his way with her.

It is not a shadow at all. Men have been in spiritual warfare since Adam. It was no shadow, it was very tangible and real. You are arguing a position from NO scripture in this regard.

The Old Testament call to "go in and conquer" was a shadow of the Spiritual war we now fight, otherwise Jesus would not have told Peter to put away his sword. The land we go in and possess is not this carnal land, but a spiritual land. Unless of coarse you believe in the "Dominion Now" false doctrine that is being espoused.

Bro, I am sorry, but there is not one place in the new testament that calls us to take up arms to defend ourselves or our families, but I have provided scripture that implies just the opposite. So the burden of proof is now on you.

But using your logic, we would not wrestle against flesh and blood even to protect our families, though you are now saying that you would...if that is your interpretation of wrestling. But that is not what that scripture is talking about.

So, would you wrestle to protect your family even since the scripture says NOT to wrestle?

I have been very plain to say I do not know what I would do in such a case, while showing what I believe scripture says. But my actions, or non-actions has no bearing on scripture. Thus far, all I have seen from the opposite side is supposition, and not sound doctrine. If I am wrong, I have no problem changing my view, as to me this is not a salvational type issue, but just a view. But until someone can present scriptural support when the New Testament gives quite a few verses like "Love you enemies", then I will continue believing what I believe, and hope I never have to be tested in this area.

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Lost and Found

Pacifism is not synonymous with non-intervention. You can involve yourself and make a difference without needing to carry a weapon or to shoot someone and end their life. The apostles and the early church never shot or killed anyone while establishing God’s kingdom on earth. They trusted God would do as He promised: “Vengeance is MINE. I WILL repay” (Romans 12:19). These saints instead willingly gave their life for their enemies. Anything less would have been seen as an assault against the message of Jesus’ gospel.

[TK Burk]

STMATTHEW, bless you my brother!

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

You folks are confusing sufering personally for the Gospel's sake with defending the helpless, such as your children.

Ever read the verse that says what God thinks about a man that doesn't provide for his own?

One thing a man must provide is protection.

Coon,

When Saul/Paul went "Saint Hunting", the bible states he drug out both men and women to put in prison. I do not read anywhere that they took up swords and fought back. I do read where they scattered and left the area to preach the word. There are more ways than one to protect ones family. Killing someone is not the only option, but it is the one I see as contradicting new testament scripture.

Act 8:3 As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed [them] to prison.
Act 8:4 Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word.

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Brother Strange

Yes, Lost said that he would not. He said that he would only trust God and do nothing himself. I hope that he has told his wife not to depend on him to protect her from a rapist.

Lost? Yep, I bet you think I am! HA!

I NEVER said I would do NOTHING. That is a complete misrepresentation. My wife KNOWS what I would do. I have put her out of harms way before. But, she also believes in what God is capable of doing.

Brother Strange, where we differ is not in defending against such attacks, but the degree in which we are willing to trust God.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Coon,

When Saul/Paul went Saint hunting, the bible states he drug out both men and women to put in prison. I do not read anywhere that they took up swords and fought back. I do read where they scattered and left the area to preach the word. There are more ways than one to protect ones family. Killing someone is not the only option, but it is the one I see as contradicting new testament scripture.

Act 8:3 As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed [them] to prison.
Act 8:4 Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word.

Matt, I offer no defense here.

You guys are just farther along in your walk with God than I am.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Brothers I was not raised in the church and I grew up pretty rough. I don't feel to go into details. I currently live in a neighborhood that on certain nights you can hear gun shots, helicopters, screams, had caught an individual in my back yard and escorted him back to the police who were chasing him (with out deadly force). I walk around the city of Fort Lauderdale and meet all different kinds of people. I talk with homeless, prostitutes (male, and females) drug dealers, gang members, and plain all around lunatics. No weapons do I carry, my 6-year-old daughter comes with me when I do Bible studies in front of one store where they have tables and chairs. If anyone is cursing or acting up I know how to persuade them to mind their manners.

All those with out using deadly force, or having to get down to the other persons level. My father taught me while I was still young that life was far from being a Hollywood movie and some times you give a beating and some times you take a beating. I have experienced both. I love my daughters and my wife and the Brothers and Sisters in the church family down here.

I would like to make this plain, no disrespect to the elders who have posted their views in this thread. The Lord knows I love you Brothers, I just have to say I will never hurt another person ever again. I will not go to a place where I would have to feel the locked focus of having to see the "other" individual as something that needs to be shut down, put out of commission.

Brothers I love my family and If we would have a situation (on the road or in my home) I would deal with it, through the power of the Holy Ghost. The Lord would give me what I needed at that time. I hate seeing children in fear, especially my own kin, and I would feel my blood run cold if anything would cause my girls to be frightened. I pray to the Lord and I am totally confident that He honors His word the same way He honors it when I pray for a sick person, with cancer, or another illness. The same way He honors it when I cast out a devil or when I baptize someone in Jesus name, and pray them through to speaking in tongues.

Is anything too hard for the Lord? Can He protect my babies and my wife like He did for Lot? I believe He will, and He has protected my family as we traveled 24 hrs to 48 hr (at times) driving in the old Lincoln through truck stops across this country. Passing through bad neighborhoods, rough towns, and during break downs when there was no one but me and my wife and an infant in a car seat.

I preach living on faith, I'm full time and the only one I depend on is Jesus, and if He can't get me out of a situation then I don't think I could do any better.

I am convinced that Jesus taught non-retaliation, no use of deadly force for any reason. You all pray for me.

If an attacker tried to hurt my children or wife, I would stand in front of them. The attacker or attackers would never get passed me. I would never need to use deadly force, just the power of Jesus Name.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

I do not read anywhere that they took up swords and fought back. I do read where they scattered and left the area to preach the word. There are more ways than one to protect ones family. Killing someone is not the only option, but it is the one I see as contradicting new testament scripture.

AMEN!

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Matt, I offer no defense here.

You guys are just farther along in your walk with God than I am.

That is why Paul said, "If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord" (Romans 12:18-19). It's all about growing in Jesus.