Firearms Refresher Course

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

You got my answer.

The bible does not forbid self defense nor does it forbid protecting other innocent lives. Nor does it explicitly state you have to use a gun or violence to protect your family. Some might feel it is implied.

Protecting someone is not retribution and is not forbidden in scriptures. Thus I refuse to judge those that feel they should protect family or loved ones from harm. Vengeance, retribution, murder...they all wrong according to what the bible says.

So I think this is a matter of personal convinction for many.

You did answer me about your age, where? Do you have a number for that post?

The Bible is totally against anyone defending themselves or the family with deadly force. It is totally unacceptable for anyone in the New Testament church to use a weapon in the military, or use deadly force to protect personal property. We are called to peace, and we can use passive resistance but never violent resistance. You have not offered any kind of Biblical case to strengthen your argument when we have offered scripture numerous times. You didn't refute our arguments. I will politely ask you again to offer an argument based on the Bible how the first century church of Jesus Christ defended themselves with deadly force. You can also show us historically how those in the first and second century AD used deadly force to protect themselves. If you cannot produce any of the above then you have no argument and just your own speculative reasoning.

I want to thank you for all your time you spent in this discussion with me, but must ask you to please present something more substantial then your conjecture.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

So they why forbid anyone else here from quoting the OT? Over and over I have read post after post demand scriptures "from the New Testament" only.

Where did I forbid that? WHERE?

Don't you believe that the OT is simply a type and shadow of the NT? If so, what's your argument?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

True in the sense that hatred often is shown in hurtful words. But taking someones life has eternal ramifications. After such an act there is no more justification for the evildoer we have killed. I'ts not easy to say or to experience, but if a Christian dies the mourning is temporary - in hell the separation from God is eternal.

Powerful words, powerful words!

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

You did answer me about your age, where? Do you have a number for that post?

I answered you when I said I would NOT be answering your personal questions

The Bible is totally against anyone defending themselves or the family with deadly force. It is totally unacceptable for anyone in the New Testament church to use a weapon in the military, or use deadly force to protect personal property. We are called to peace, and we can use passive resistance but never violent resistance. You have not offered any kind of Biblical case to strengthen your argument when we have offered scripture numerous times. You didn't refute our arguments. I will politely ask you again to offer an argument based on the Bible how the first century church of Jesus Christ defended themselves with deadly force. You can also show us historically how those in the first and second century AD used deadly force to protect themselves. If you cannot produce any of the above then you have no argument and just your own speculative reasoning.

I want to thank you for all your time you spent in this discussion with me, but must ask you to please present something more substantial then your conjecture.

I have yet to see a single verse that supports the bible being "totally against" using physical force, even deadly force, to protect others from harm. I have seen support against repayment or rendering evil for evil, retribution and or vengeance. Anything else was speculation based on a lack of occurances. That is an argument from silence and proves nothing.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Lost and Found

Where did I forbid that? WHERE?

Don't you believe that the OT is simply a type and shadow of the NT? If so, what's your argument?

Everytime someone on this thread demanded scriptures from the NT only, they were forbidding using the OT for biblical support.
No the OT is not "simply" a type and shadow of the NT. The OT CONTAINS types and shadows that are revealed in the NT.

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I have yet to see a single verse that supports the bible being "totally against" using physical force, even deadly force, to protect others from harm. I have seen support against repayment or rendering evil for evil, retribution and or vengeance. Anything else was speculation based on a lack of occurances. That is an argument from silence and proves nothing.

SINGLE verse? How about several?

The following is list of some of the many scriptures that tell a Christian that they should be violent free:

• But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; (Matthew 5:44)

• But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, (Luke 6:27)

• But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. (Luke 6:35)

• But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. (Matthew 5:39)

• But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness. (1 Timothy 6:11)

• Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: (Hebrews 12:14)

• Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it. For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil. And who is he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good? But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled; (1 Peter 3:11-14)

• Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. (Galatians 5:19-24)

• Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good. (Romans 12:19-21)

• Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamor, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. (Ephesians 4:31-32)

• Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: (Luke 6:37)

• And he said unto his disciples, Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat; neither for the body, what ye shall put on. (Luke 12:22)

• Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. (Matthew 26:52)

• Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. (Matthew 7:12)

• Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing. (1 Peter 3:9)

• Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. (Romans 12:17)

• See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men. (1 Thessalonians 5:15)

Sola Scriptura Brother, Sola Scriptura!

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I answered you when I said I would NOT be answering your personal questions


I have yet to see a single verse that supports the bible being "totally against" using physical force, even deadly force, to protect others from harm. I have seen support against repayment or rendering evil for evil, retribution and or vengeance. Anything else was speculation based on a lack of occurances. That is an argument from silence and proves nothing.

This deserves further explanation and definition. Using your rape analogy from earlier, when is shooting/killing a man "justified"? What if the deed is done and then you come on the scene? Then what?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Lost and Found

SINGLE verse? How about several?

The following is list of some of the many scriptures that tell a Christian that they should be violent free:

• But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; (Matthew 5:44)
• But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, (Luke 6:27)
• But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. (Luke 6:35)
• But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. (Matthew 5:39)
• But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness. (1 Timothy 6:11)
• Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: (Hebrews 12:14)
• Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it. For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil. And who is he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good? But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled; (1 Peter 3:11-14)
• Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. (Galatians 5:19-24)
• Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good. (Romans 12:19-21)
• Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamor, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. (Ephesians 4:31-32)
• Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: (Luke 6:37)
• And he said unto his disciples, Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat; neither for the body, what ye shall put on. (Luke 12:22)
• Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. (Matthew 26:52)
• Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. (Matthew 7:12)
• Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing. (1 Peter 3:9)
• Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. (Romans 12:17)
• See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men. (1 Thessalonians 5:15)

Sola Scriptura Brother, Sola Scriptura!

SCORE!!!!

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I answered you when I said I would NOT be answering your personal questions.

Are you that young?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

This deserves further explanation and definition. Using your rape analogy from earlier, when is shooting/killing a man "justified"? What if the deed is done and then you come on the scene? Then what?

Who is this masked man? L&F this Brother is very good.