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08-21-2007, 10:04 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,794
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost and Found
SINGLE verse? How about several? 
The following is list of some of the many scriptures that tell a Christian that they should be violent free:
• But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; ( Matthew 5:44)
• But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, ( Luke 6:27)
• But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. ( Luke 6:35)
• But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. ( Matthew 5:39)
• But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness. ( 1 Timothy 6:11)
• Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: ( Hebrews 12:14)
• Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it. For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil. And who is he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good? But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled; ( 1 Peter 3:11-14)
• Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. ( Galatians 5:19-24)
• Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good. ( Romans 12:19-21)
• Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamor, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. ( Ephesians 4:31-32)
• Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: ( Luke 6:37)
• And he said unto his disciples, Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat; neither for the body, what ye shall put on. ( Luke 12:22)
• Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. ( Matthew 26:52)
• Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. ( Matthew 7:12)
• Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing. ( 1 Peter 3:9)
• Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. ( Romans 12:17)
• See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men. ( 1 Thessalonians 5:15)
Sola Scriptura Brother, Sola Scriptura! |
Within these scriptures you have a lot that are directly referring to retribution or pay back, which is not just about physical violence.
The reason why this discussion is pointless and getting nowhere is because you keep posting scriptures that address retribution or payback, not self defense or protecting family. Those are not the same things. This has happened over and over and over and over and over and over from the beginning. I'm not sure if you just don't understand the difference or just don't care. But when that happens it really just reduces the conversation to redundant repetitions on both our parts.
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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08-21-2007, 10:07 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,794
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover
This deserves further explanation and definition. Using your rape analogy from earlier, when is shooting/killing a man "justified"? What if the deed is done and then you come on the scene? Then what?
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Self defense is preventative. Defending someone else is the act of preventing or stoping a violent action. Coming on the scene AFTER the fact and then going to that person and blowing their brains out is vengeance or retribution. I have made this point several times now.
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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08-21-2007, 10:07 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,794
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa
Are you that young?
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This is why I won't answer you. I don't trust you. You just are looking for fodder to make more personal insults or attacks.
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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08-21-2007, 10:10 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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See that none render evil for evil unto any man
Killing one (condemned to hell most likely) who is transgressing against you then is not evil - but to go and rape his wife in return would be the evil in reference here? Am I reading this right?
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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08-21-2007, 10:14 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
Self defense is preventative. Defending someone else is the act of preventing or stoping a violent action. Coming on the scene AFTER the fact and then going to that person and blowing their brains out is vengeance or retribution. I have made this point several times now.
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Sorry this line is very unclear to me. I think most would kill before, during or after the rape... I know this would be my inclination without the help of God...
BTW no one is saying you should not stop him from raping.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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08-21-2007, 10:14 PM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood too
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 41,048
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
Self defense is preventative. Defending someone else is the act of preventing or stoping a violent action. Coming on the scene AFTER the fact and then going to that person and blowing their brains out is vengeance or retribution. I have made this point several times now.
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Ok, let's see if we can get spoon fed, self-defense is preventative. So wouldn't that make you the initiator of the assault? Aren't you the one becoming the attacker because it's you who are the aggressor? I truly believe that your argument is based on semantics.
I have prayer meeting at six AM, so I will be on my way shortly and resume this tomorrow night. Prax if I have offended you, I'm truly sorry.
In JESUS name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
__________________
"all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
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08-21-2007, 10:14 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: AZ
Posts: 16,746
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Quote:
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Killing one (condemned to hell most likely) who has transgressed against you then is not evil - but to go and rape his wife in return would be the evil in reference here? Am I reading this right?
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Actually it would be more accurate to say that killing someone to PREVENT him from killing you, or more importantly other family members, is the issue.
To paraphrase a bit from memory, "The way I saw it, by shooting at them I was saving lives." -Sgt York
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08-21-2007, 10:18 PM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood too
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 41,048
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover
Sorry this line is very unclear to me.
BTW no one is saying you should not stop him from raping.
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Exactly Brother Hoover and that point have been made numerous times in this thread. We just cannot use lethal force. We restrain unruly children, or a thief can be halted, and a barrier can be made with bodies blocking the path of aggressors.
__________________
"all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
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08-21-2007, 10:20 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWayne
Actually it would be more accurate to say that killing someone to PREVENT him from killing you, or more importantly other family members, is the issue.
To paraphrase a bit from memory, "The way I saw it, by shooting at them I was saving lives." -Sgt York
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I would argue the intent of the force should be something less than deadly, realizing that he deserves death, as even do I... but more importantly, he needs a Saviour as even do/did I.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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08-21-2007, 10:22 PM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood too
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 41,048
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
This is why I won't answer you. I don't trust you. You just are looking for fodder to make more personal insults or attacks.
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Praxeas I love you, stop that already. I have been around you for what three years now? Don't you know that I love you.  We have been on the same side in an argument a few times in the past. We worked well with each other. I want us to be friends, ok?
__________________
"all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
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