Are The 70.Wks Of Daniel Fulfilled ?

[Scott Hutchinson]

Is the right hand of God in Heaven ? Are we sitted in heavenly places right now ?Does not God rule out of Heaven now ?
Jesus Christ couln't rule on a throne ,in Jerusalem now ,because He is considered an enemy to Judaism ,He'd be outlawed there.

Originally Posted by onlygrace

Not to split hairs but it actually says "some" would not taste of death.

Yes, Jesus did state "There be SOME standing here, which shall NOT taste of death..." (Matt. 16:28), however, that was not the FULL extent of His statement concerning this important matter.

He ALSO stated that this exemption from the affects of death would be TEMPORARY in its essence, therefore the inclusion of the word "till" (or until). Simply stated, this "temporary" exemption from the affects of death would be granted to SOME (a limited number), and would remain effective ONLY "until" the coming moment of His appearance in all of the glory and splendor of His eternal kingdom. Seeing that He has NOT returned yet, then it is only reasonable to conclude that not only are those to whom this "temporary" exemption from the affects of death have been granted are yet alive, but that the kingdom of God, in its fullness, is yet futuristic. (Oh! I know that statement will draw the rebuke of preterists; a belief which I once held dear UNTIL God opened my understanding.)

There exists much, much more to this statement of our Lord concerning those to whom God would grant a "temporary" reprieve from the affects of death UNTIL the moment of His second coming to the earth, however, that is a topic for a different thread.

[mfblume]

To say the end of Matthew 16 is speaking about a temporary reprieve from death, until a coming thousands of years later, is to read the passage from a predetermined perspective of a particular prophetic viewpoint. To say the least, I disagree with that assertion.

Jesus was saying some would literally not die physically before He would come. And His coming is the coming of Matt 21:40 -- judgment against Jerusalem.

[crakjak]

"It was to this event, the most awful in history,...that we must apply thos prophecies of Christ's coming in which everyone of the Apostles and Evangelists fixed these three most definite limitations--the one, that before that generation passed away all these things would be fulfilled; another, that some standing should not taste death till they saw the Son of Man coming in His Kingdom; and third, that the Apostles should not have gone over the cities of Israel till the Son of Man be come. It is strange that these distinct limitations should not be regarded as the decisive proof that the Fall of Jerusalem, was in the fullest sense, the Second Advent of the Son of Man which was primarily contemplated by the earliest voices of prophecy." (F. W. Farrar, The Early Days of Christianity, 1882, Vol. 2, p. 489).

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by crakjak

"It was to this event, the most awful in history,...that we must apply thos prophecies of Christ's coming in which everyone of the Apostles and Evangelists fixed these three most definite limitations--the one, that before that generation passed away all these things would be fulfilled; another, that some standing should not taste death till they saw the Son of Man coming in His Kingdom; and third, that the Apostles should not have gone over the cities of Israel till the Son of Man be come. ...

Amen and amen!

[onlygrace]

Originally Posted by PaPaDon

Yes, Jesus did state "There be SOME standing here, which shall NOT taste of death..." (Matt. 16:28), however, that was not the FULL extent of His statement concerning this important matter.

He ALSO stated that this exemption from the affects of death would be TEMPORARY in its essence, therefore the inclusion of the word "till" (or until). Simply stated, this "temporary" exemption from the affects of death would be granted to SOME (a limited number), and would remain effective ONLY "until" the coming moment of His appearance in all of the glory and splendor of His eternal kingdom. Seeing that He has NOT returned yet, then it is only reasonable to conclude that not only are those to whom this "temporary" exemption from the affects of death have been granted are yet alive, but that the kingdom of God, in its fullness, is yet futuristic. (Oh! I know that statement will draw the rebuke of preterists; a belief which I once held dear UNTIL God opened my understanding.)


There exists much, much more to this statement of our Lord concerning those to whom God would grant a "temporary" reprieve from the affects of death UNTIL the moment of His second coming to the earth, however, that is a topic for a different thread.

Uh, I am not seeing any Scriptural references to back your claim here. Could you provide some?

Originally Posted by onlygrace

Uh, I am not seeing any Scriptural references to back your claim here. Could you provide some?

I believe the words of Matthew 16:28 are self-explanatory, however, we also find this SAME statement recorded in Mark 9:1 and Luke 9:27 (w/some variations). Let us examine them closely:

Matthew 16:28 -
"Verily I say unto you (directing His remarks solely to the chosen disciples - see verse #24), There be some standing here (please note the word SOME, therefore that which He was speaking about would NOT be applicable to ALL, most notably Judas Iscariot, of course), which shall not taste of death (please note that Jesus was NOT stating that these would not undergo the experience of death, but ONLY that they would not TASTE of its affects), till (or, until) they (this is to say, those to whom this temporary exemption from the affects of death would apply) see (i.e., witness) the Son of Man (Christ Jesus Himself) coming in his kingdom (an event which has NOT yet occurred, albeit He did appear unto them AFTER His resurrection for a period of 40 days prior to His bodily ascension to His throne located in the heavens, however He has not COME "in his kingdom" as yet)."

Mark 9:1 -
"And he (Christ Jesus) said unto them (His chosen disciples), Verily (or, surely) I say unto you, That there be some (again, not all, especially excluding Judas Iscariot, who betrayed Him) of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death (again, NOT that any of these would NOT experience a physical death, but ONLY that they would be granted a temporary reprieve from its affects), till (or, until) they have seen the kingdom of God come with power (this portion of our Lord's statement concerning this matter differs from Matthew's writings, in that Matthew indicated that this temporary repreive from death's affects would terminate at the coming of the "Son of Man in his kingdom," whereas Mark referred to this futuristic event as the coming of the "kingdom of God with power")."

Luke 9:27 -
"But I tell you (speaking to His chosen disciples - see verse #18 & 23) of a truth, there be some (see remarks regarding this word in my explanations in previous passages) standing here, which shall not taste of death (see also previous remarks about this matter), till they see the kingdom of God (note - Luke used the same phrase to describe the termination of this temporary reprieve from the affects of death as Mark)."

Now, recognizing, and acknowledging, that we have been commanded to locate a second, or third, passage of Scripture to authenticate that which is found within the context of a specific verse, then where might one find such a thing being asserted by someone OTHER than the Lord? One need look no farther than the words of the apostle Paul, as found recorded in I Corinthians 15:51, where we find this renown holy man of olden times also addressing this SAME thing:

"Behold, (which is to say, take special note to this important fact of truth), I shew (or, disclose/reveal) you (facts regarding) a mystery (concerning God's divine plan and purpose for man); (and what are the elements of this particular "mystery"?) We shall NOT ALL sleep (the "sleep of death" - see Psalm 13:3), but we shall all be changed."

Paul, just as the other chosen disciples to whom our Lord explicitly asserted this "temporary reprieve" from the affects of death would be granted, was fully gognizant of the fact that, whenever the moment arrived that he would undergo the experience of the death of his physical body, would also be granted this same unique privilege which God has elected to grant to only a select few (thus Paul's use of the word "we," which, of necessity, must be construed to include himself). This fact is further proven by Paul's words found recorded in Philippians 1:21-23 and II Corinthians 5:8).

The truth of the matter is that God has elected to grant a "temporary reprieve" from the affects of death to 24 individuals. This is to say, that the eternal, invisible "souls" of these 24, although NOT granted an "exemption" from the universal/common experience of the death of the physical bodies in which they dwelt (a judgment from which NO man shall be exempted), are to remain "alive," and present with the Lord in His heavenly kingdom, UNTIL the future moment of His physical return at the END of the present age. However, because we MUST ALL undergo the experience of a bodily resurrection, that is to say the "redemption of our body" for which we must patiently await (see Romans 8:23), then even the eternal, invisible "souls" of those to whom this "temporary reprieve" from the affects of death has been granted, MUST return to the "dust of the ground" in which they once resided. This is why we find apostle Paul addressing the events which are to take place at the 2nd coming of our Lord and the subsequent resurrection of the righteous dead, in some rather explicit details, within the context of I Thessalonians 4:13-18 (scriptural passages which continue to be a source of tremendous dissension among many even within the OAP movement).

Again, there exists much, much more that could be written regarding this matter, however, because any discussion regarding the events which are to precede and surround the second coming of our wondrous eternal Lord and Savior is such a source of contention among many today, then it is my fervent hope that the things I have written will enable you to come to a better understanding of that which our Lord was speaking about within the aforementioned passages.

Regards,
PaPaDon

[mfblume]

Tasting death is tasting death. Simple. Not complicated. Just physically dying. Let's not add to the Word.

Originally Posted by mfblume

Tasting death is tasting death. Simple. Not complicated. Just physically dying. Let's not add to the Word.

I have lived long enough to learn that it is often the "simple" things which prove to be the most "complicated" to those who believe themselves to already "know it all."

I have also lived long enough to learn that whenever we pause and take a careful, prayerful "second look" at those things which we have become so convinced that we are absolutely right about, that we generally discover that we were wrong.

This has been my experience, especially when it comes to the many esoteric and secretive aspects of the many great and wondrous "mysteries of God," of which the particular passages I've addressed are an integral part.

Yes, the phrase "tasting death" means precisely that, nothing more and certainly nothing less. However, our Lord did NOT assert that those to whom His remarks were directed would NEVER "taste" death, ONLY that such "tasting" of death would NOT transpire UNTIL some later point in time. That, my friend, is the WHOLE essence of His statement. You may assert otherwise, and that is certainly your privilege, however, for me, taking His words at their "face value," then the small word "UNTIL" takes on quite a significant degree of meaning, and one which I would highly recommend that you expend some time in prayerfully examining.


And, NO, I am not "adding" to the Word, as you imply. That part of your statement represents your opinion, although you fail to make that fact plain. It is certainly not mine!

Perhaps I should also state that, being fully aware of your end-time prophetic opinions, I assure you that your response was not unexpected.

Regards,
PaPaDon

[Praxeas]

Hey Papa...I love your pizzas!