Why are UPC church's so sectarian?

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by OP_Carl

Nice switcheroo. oloroid

. . . . or were you admitting that liberal Apostolics are in need of being evangelized by the conservatives?

The discussion was on fellowship, which is where two groups get together and by and large declare each other to be equivalent, i.e., not lost, not teaching false doctrine, etc.

The discussion was not about reaching the dirty sinners in their squalid environs.

There is an endless siren song for compromise. Some want big things, and others are willing to peck away at it little by little.

Those liberals that ask conservatives to fellowship them are asking the conservatives to de-value some of the beliefs and teachings they value, by tacitly declaring the lack of said beliefs to be equivalent.

I guess it comes down to how we define fellowship. I don't see fellowship as accepting false doctrine or compromise, that would be backsliding not fellowship, wouldn't it? I do think there is room for differences in standards, but not The Doctrine. I befriend a lot of people who do not hold to any biblical doctrine, so that I can give them a taste. The word does tell us "If a brother be overtaken in a fault, you who are spiritual restore such a one in the spirit of meekness, considering your self lest you also be tempted' [Weaver Paraphrase]

Maybe what's gotten a lot of us confused is the sad fact that doctors in our day and age by and large don't make house calls....Those that are sick need the Physician..........

[PastorDaniel]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

Wow...I wonder how much Jesus was dirtied by all those publicans and sinners he hung out with.........or how His message was diluted by all the dialog He had with the Pharisees.......

Well said RevDWW....if Jesus himself came walking through our doors....most would not recognize or accept him. Especially with some of the logic on here...I mean come on! Jesus was always with sinners...loving them...changing them...

We're supposed to be like Christ...yet most won't even fellowship another Christian because they are not as "HOLY" as them. May I remind you that our righteousness is as filthy rags!

NONE OF US ARE WORTHY AND WILL NEVER BE....but thank God for his Grace and Mercy!

[SDG]

Originally Posted by OP_Carl

Nice switcheroo. oloroid

. . . . or were you admitting that liberal Apostolics are in need of being evangelized by the conservatives?

The discussion was on fellowship, which is where two groups get together and by and large declare each other to be equivalent, i.e., not lost, not teaching false doctrine, etc.

The discussion was not about reaching the dirty sinners in their squalid environs.

There is an endless siren song for compromise. Some want big things, and others are willing to peck away at it little by little.

Those liberals that ask conservatives to fellowship them are asking the conservatives to de-value some of the beliefs and teachings they value, by tacitly declaring the lack of said beliefs to be equivalent.

blah.... blah ... blah ... blah ....

[Truly Blessed]

Originally Posted by OP_Carl

Nice switcheroo. oloroid

. . . . or were you admitting that liberal Apostolics are in need of being evangelized by the conservatives?

The discussion was on fellowship, which is where two groups get together and by and large declare each other to be equivalent, i.e., not lost, not teaching false doctrine, etc.

The discussion was not about reaching the dirty sinners in their squalid environs.

There is an endless siren song for compromise. Some want big things, and others are willing to peck away at it little by little.

Those liberals that ask conservatives to fellowship them are asking the conservatives to de-value some of the beliefs and teachings they value, by tacitly declaring the lack of said beliefs to be equivalent.

In the days of Jesus there were, as there are today in the church, what we have chosen to label as liberals and conservatives. The liberals in Jesus' day were called the Sadducees and the conservatives were called the Pharisees. One day Jesus said to His disciples, " . . . beware the leaven of the Pharisees and the Sadducees." In today's language He might have said, " . . . beware the influence of the liberals and the conservatives."

This is no time for the liberals to become more liberal and the conservatives more conservative. Remember, Jesus warned us of the leaven of both extremes.

We need to realize that we can't put our faith in a "something;" we have to put it in Someone. We must be totally committed to Jesus. He Himself told us that when we build on the Rock, the storms of life will not drive us out to sea, where extremes dictate our course.

How long are we liberals and conservatives going to be controlled by the "somethings" we believe in? It seems to me that currently we are both in a ditch. We will never get to heaven the way we are going. When the car slides off the road, the trip is over until it gets back on. I believe it is time for all of us to climb out of whichever side of the road we have slid into and return to the middle of the road.

Some people are not comfortable with the term "middle of the road." Neither am I, if by that is meant the middle of the wrong road. The middle of the road I am talking about is the middle of the right road! The one-way street to eternal life and heaven. Let it not be forgotten that Jesus was murdered by a coalition of liberals and conservatives. The Sadducees, who were the liberals, hated Jesus because He was so principled. The Pharisees, who were the conservatives, hated Him because He was so nice to people. I want to be in the middle of the right road. I want to be a person who is nice, but who has high principles.

Let's get out of the ditch and back onto the "Road of Life in Jesus Christ" where He is the focus not our personal perceptions on how to walk this road. Maybe then we could stop arguing with one another all the time and join together in defeating the real enemy.

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

In the days of Jesus there were, as there are today in the church, what we have chosen to label as liberals and conservatives. The liberals in Jesus' day were called the Sadducees and the conservatives were called the Pharisees. One day Jesus said to His disciples, " . . . beware the leaven of the Pharisees and the Sadducees." In today's language He might have said, " . . . beware the influence of the liberals and the conservatives."

This is no time for the liberals to become more liberal and the conservatives more conservative. Remember, Jesus warned us of the leaven of both extremes.

We need to realize that we can't put our faith in a "something;" we have to put it in Someone. We must be totally committed to Jesus. He Himself told us that when we build on the Rock, the storms of life will not drive us out to sea, where extremes dictate our course.

How long are we liberals and conservatives going to be controlled by the "somethings" we believe in? It seems to me that currently we are both in a ditch. We will never get to heaven the way we are going. When the car slides off the road, the trip is over until it gets back on. I believe it is time for all of us to climb out of whichever side of the road we have slid into and return to the middle of the road.

Some people are not comfortable with the term "middle of the road." Neither am I, if by that is meant the middle of the wrong road. The middle of the road I am talking about is the middle of the right road! The one-way street to eternal life and heaven. Let it not be forgotten that Jesus was murdered by a coalition of liberals and conservatives. The Sadducees, who were the liberals, hated Jesus because He was so principled. The Pharisees, who were the conservatives, hated Him because He was so nice to people. I want to be in the middle of the right road. I want to be a person who is nice, but who has high principles.

Let's get out of the ditch and back onto the "Road of Life in Jesus Christ" where He is the focus not our personal perceptions on how to walk this road. Maybe then we could stop arguing with one another all the time and join our together in defeating the real enemy.

While I agree with you in theory, your analogy breaks down in real life. Nobody can travel the middle of the road, unless its a one way street. Most traffic goes both ways and you'll get hurt trying to stay in the middle. What I've noticed, is that somebody will usually push you to the other side and then call you names...

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

In the days of Jesus there were, as there are today in the church, what we have chosen to label as liberals and conservatives. The liberals in Jesus' day were called the Sadducees and the conservatives were called the Pharisees. One day Jesus said to His disciples, " . . . beware the leaven of the Pharisees and the Sadducees." In today's language He might have said, " . . . beware the influence of the liberals and the conservatives."

This is no time for the liberals to become more liberal and the conservatives more conservative. Remember, Jesus warned us of the leaven of both extremes.

We need to realize that we can't put our faith in a "something;" we have to put it in Someone. We must be totally committed to Jesus. He Himself told us that when we build on the Rock, the storms of life will not drive us out to sea, where extremes dictate our course.

How long are we liberals and conservatives going to be controlled by the "somethings" we believe in? It seems to me that currently we are both in a ditch. We will never get to heaven the way we are going. When the car slides off the road, the trip is over until it gets back on. I believe it is time for all of us to climb out of whichever side of the road we have slid into and return to the middle of the road.

Some people are not comfortable with the term "middle of the road." Neither am I, if by that is meant the middle of the wrong road. The middle of the road I am talking about is the middle of the right road! The one-way street to eternal life and heaven. Let it not be forgotten that Jesus was murdered by a coalition of liberals and conservatives. The Sadducees, who were the liberals, hated Jesus because He was so principled. The Pharisees, who were the conservatives, hated Him because He was so nice to people. I want to be in the middle of the right road. I want to be a person who is nice, but who has high principles.

Let's get out of the ditch and back onto the "Road of Life in Jesus Christ" where He is the focus not our personal perceptions on how to walk this road. Maybe then we could stop arguing with one another all the time and join together in defeating the real enemy.

Elder, your words have made me weep...wonderful post!!

I nominate this Post of the Day!!

[Barb]

Originally Posted by crazyhomie

While I agree with you in theory, your analogy breaks down in real life. Nobody can travel the middle of the road, unless its a one way street. Most traffic goes both ways and you'll get hurt trying to stay in the middle. What I've noticed, is that somebody will usually push you to the other side and then call you names...

I disagree...I believe I can live moderately and balanced...that to me is 'middle of the road'.

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by Sandra

this thread will be short lived, just a guess.

A short lived standards thread....surely you jest.

Originally Posted by Barb

I disagree...I believe I can live moderately and balanced...that to me is 'middle of the road'.

Well Barb, I think it's best understood in terms of the middle of your lane I suppose.

There is two way traffic and the middle of the road is dangerous, but the middle of the lane in which you travel is a good place to be. Getting sucked into the ditch can be dangerous too.

Though we all swerve a little within the lane from time to time, it's important that we make our destination.

Originally Posted by freeatlast

A short lived standards thread....surely you jest.

I think it goes well beyond standards...

I agree it's not likely to be short lived.