Why are UPC church's so sectarian?

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Theophilus

Well Barb, I think it's best understood in terms of the middle of your lane I suppose.

There is two way traffic and the middle of the road is dangerous, but the middle of the lane in which you travel is a good place to be. Getting sucked into the ditch can be dangerous too.

Though we all swerve a little within the lane from time to time, it's important that we make our destination.

Yes, I agree, however understanding the heart of the elder who posted, I didn't think he intended for us to take our half out of the middle.

We can stand in agreement that extremism in any area or on any side is a dangerous place.

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by Theophilus

I think it goes well beyond standards...

I agree it's not likely to be short lived.

Ah yes O wise Theophilus, but it does ALL stem from our disagreement over standards.

The very use of the word "standards" in describing our rules of dress and grooming is in error.

How many sermons have you heard a preacher quoute "when the enemy codmes in God will raise up a standard" and then go one to clotheline preaching from there?

The "standard" that is raised up by the coservative faction today is not the flag of the cross of Calvary, but a flag of a rule book or organizational manual.

It is used or raised up, when the percieved enemy of other Christians, who do not hold to their "line" of rules, come into their little club house's they call churches.

So proudly they wave the banner, elevate their standard, they become blinded to anything that tries to show the error of their way.

[Truly Blessed]

Originally Posted by crazyhomie

While I agree with you in theory, your analogy breaks down in real life. Nobody can travel the middle of the road, unless its a one way street. Most traffic goes both ways and you'll get hurt trying to stay in the middle. What I've noticed, is that somebody will usually push you to the other side and then call you names...

Prove to me in Scripture that the road to eternal life is a two-way street.

[Truly Blessed]

Originally Posted by Barb

I disagree...I believe I can live moderately and balanced...that to me is 'middle of the road'.

EXACTLY!

Originally Posted by Barb

Yes, I agree, however understanding the heart of the elder who posted, I didn't think he intended for us to take our half out of the middle.

We can stand in agreement that extremism in any area or on any side is a dangerous place.

Right.

I suppose that I see the world as going the other way on the road of life with a completely different destination.

Thus, finding the middle of the road in life is a very liberal tendency as well as is huging the center line.

The 'conservative' approach tends to huge the line closest to the ditch in a genuinely conservative by definition reaction to the traffic in the other lane. This can lend itself to getting sucked into the ditch. Sometimes fatal, sometimes not.

This is why a Biblically based balance keeps us where we really need to be, though often when the world comes at you the life saving reaction might take you off the road for a time of conservative avoidance and survival. I have friends in the grave that zigged when they should have zagged.

Overall we need to keep it all in perpective and make it to our destination and stop along the way from time to time to let travellers know that the southbound lane leads to a dead end. Some believe, turn around, and follow, some think you must be joking.

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

Prove to me in Scripture that the road to eternal life is a two-way street.

There's not.

But, there are a couple of different ways to look at it.

I just posted one, but if we look at it as a one way road we all travel in life then cetainly there is the lane less travelled that leads to eternal life that forks off at the throne, the sheep to the right on the narrow, goats on the left on the wide. There is no center lane there. Thus we need to practice staying in the lane that leads us to Him. That is the only 'road' we want to be in the middle of.

Sadly, I'm afraid that those more concerned with finding the middle of the road in general, for the middle of the road's sake, than finding the middle of the lane we must be in will miss that last exit at the end.

Originally Posted by Barb

I disagree...I believe I can live moderately and balanced...that to me is 'middle of the road'.

The tragedy is that many OP's won't let you. They make you choose sides. Who's side are you on? If you're middle of the road your "charismatic". By default, people want you to be miserable too.

Originally Posted by Barb

Yes, I agree, however understanding the heart of the elder who posted, I didn't think he intended for us to take our half out of the middle.

We can stand in agreement that extremism in any area or on any side is a dangerous place.

Yes, I think I read somewhere to let your moderation be known to all men...theres a lot of road rage in pentecost!!!

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

Prove to me in Scripture that the road to eternal life is a two-way street.

I wasn't referring to scripture, I was referring to life in general and relationally speaking. There are always people coming and going. That's life! The road to eternal life is in Jesus Christ. Any road that does not follow Jesus is leading in the wrong direction. However, some think the road belongs to them alone...

Originally Posted by RevDWW

Wow...I wonder how much Jesus was dirtied by all those publicans and sinners he hung out with.........or how His message was diluted by all the dialog He had with the Pharisees.......

I see your point, i'll start fellowshipping sinners........ I mean liberals, so that I can win them. Oh, and I promise my message will not change.

Now, I am willing to get dirty to win a sinner but I don't have any respect for false doctrine. This may sound harsh but I don't see much different between a Charismatic and a Catholic. I believe both are in false doctrine and while I may be willing to go out of the way to reach unchurched sinners I will not subject our saints to false doctrine. Would you fellowship your church with a Muslim church? I don't think you would. Why? Because you believe totally different things and that's how I feel about fellowshipping with liberals.

Let me put a disclaimer on this. I am speaking mainly of ministry. It's not the congrgation of the other churches that I don't respect, it's the ministry that is leading that church.