Do "OPs" Really Have More Power than other Christians?

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Theophilus

I believe that the members of the Oneness Apostolic movement at large that DO NOT FAINT do, in fact, have, maintain, and display the inter workings of that Power that resides.

I have seen the Holy Ghost radically change lives, wherein other churches just gain members that only go so far.

I think some of what you've seen in fifty years are some warehouses full of backsliding, contained, and complacent would be Christians right there on the pew.

However, I have seen and felt the Power of the Holy Ghost in services and in homes, where I never felt or witnessed it prior to with my experience in other denominations.

Yet, I've seen dead UPCi situations too...no matter, doesn't take away from the Power and where it has gone.

When I was a kid I liked the idea of supernatural powers, it somewhat detracted me from considering any Christian power for the many sources of the forces, if you get my meaning.

Howbeit, as I traveled home one night from one of my first Illinois camp meetings at the age of 12 a terrible stomach pain came over me. The man that took us, who later became my step father, grabbed some oil and started praying for me in Jesus name as soon as I hit the couch.

I was healed with a power I had never felt before...I was like:

"What was that!"

So crakhead....what was that?

Since you really don't seem to know, after 50 years, I'll tell ya.

It was the Holy Ghost.

Same Holy Ghost that fell on me a few months later and caused me to speak with words I didn't even understand. I didn't purpose to do it...I was 12 for crying out loud...it just happened to me.

Same Holy Ghost that has empowered millions throughout time. Within and without OP situations, but never in situations without the Truth.

Same Holy Ghost that has healed countless people, including my own children before my eyes.

That's power friend, unlike you'll find anywhere else. And I've been everywhere else as far as denominations go, and Lord knows I played with matches elsewhere as well. The little powers cannot compare.

Maybe you spent fifty years in the bathroom at the wrong church(s).

Backsliders happen. It takes nothing away from the true Power that would have saved them, had they just not spent so much time going to the bathroom during service and really gotten involved with the things of God.

God does try to move in other situations when the enviroment is right, does that mean that they have a hold of the same Power, or does it mean that the Power is trying to get them to get a hold of Him?

Consider Matthew 7:

[I]21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.[/I]

Looks like He was trying to get a hold of them, but they weren't interested in going any further...because they thought they had arrived. This is applicable across the spectrum, OPs alike. Yet I think you'll find in that day fewer OPs that stuck to it in this Matt 7 situation, than anyone else...the great deception of Charismania included.

My friend don't be so defensive, I believe very much in the power of the Holy Ghost. But your post exemplifies exactly what I am addressing, that the OP experience is more powerful than the others that live very similarly, yet don't hold to the OP doctrines and standards.

I see the same power over sickness, and I see lives radically changed, families healed in churches that OP's generally discard as true believers.

Further the scripture you use, could very easily apply to OP's, since these are very common practices of OP's. We must all take hold of God instead of blind confidence in tradition. Of which you have conceded.

WHAT IS THE OBSESSION WITH THE BATHROOM?

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

I don't think for a moment that we are all okay! I believe that what every church in North America needs is a genuine humbling of ourselves before God, a laying down of our pride and a renewed consecration and dedication to the true power of God which is the message of the cross and the Spirit guided life made possible by the reconciliation that was accomplished for us on the cross.

We Christians are so deep in the "doo doo" of irrelevent issues that the unbeliever has a hard time finding their way to the cross anymore.

AMEN!

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Theophilus

Now then, bring this to its natural conclusion. Does this mean that non OP churchs are doing well, or your associations or references are lacking something?

A classic mistake in comparing ourselves with others in this regard is in our points of reference.
If we conclude that we are all looking good because we all have relatively the same level of Power, less what you call hype, in operation does it mean we are all where we need to be?

I've witnessed power that you will not find in other situations. I suppose I've seen a lot of 'hype' do alot of things.

I'm sure that the enemies of Christ told the people:

"Oh, don't believe the hype."

I'd say that their is plenty of power that gets labeled as hype, and hype that gets labelled as power. Perhaps, this is some of what appears to create the illusion of balance that crakjak refers to that makes some feel like we are all 'ok.'

I'm quite certain that true Holy Ghost filled believers don't have to travel far to smell the difference.

Maybe the classic mistake is the arrogant attitude that others cannot access this power, because they don't fit the OP mold? God is at work in places I never imagined, and "who can hinder Him?"

Originally Posted by crakjak

My friend don't be so defensive, I believe very much in the power of the Holy Ghost. But your post exemplifies exactly what I am addressing, that the OP experience is more powerful than the others that live very similarly, yet don't hold to the OP doctrines and standards.

I see the same power over sickness, and I see lives radically changed, families healed in churches that OP's generally discard as true believers.

Further the scripture you use, could very easily apply to OP's, since these are very common practices of OP's. We must all take hold of God instead of blind confidence in tradition. Of which you have conceded.

WHAT IS THE OBSESSION WITH THE BATHROOM?

Perhaps I misunderstand your intent, pardon me, it seems as though you'd like to level the field and call it all good.

Again, as we can see in Matt 7, these things are not vindicators of the possession of true Holy Ghost Power on all levels. He said he in essence never knew them intimately. This naturally can apply to some OPs and OP situations, but I dare say that it is overall rare by comparision.

Therefore, it's great to see people healed by God anywhere, but I see that as a response to an enviroment for a reason beyond the healing itself. Some folks get up, respond, and seek more of God as a result, some take it as vindication of arrival.

I'm not OP, but I'm not anti-OP either. Nevertheless, although I pray God moves entire churches and denominations to all of the Truth, I can't agree that they have the same power at large based on your criteria.

The Bathroom thing, LOL, I'm troubled at those the run for the cover of one throne when they haad well be at the feet of anothers. That is no cliche I know, it just came to mind.

I seem to feel like anyone that has denounced the Power that OPs in general experience on a regular basis, having been there, is either in the wrong church or in the bathroom when much of it goes down.

Then again if people would take better care of themselves they wouldn't need so much coffee to get going for church and then they wouldn't have to, well , you know....

I've got it! Eureka! Stop the Press!

One way to greater moves of God for churches is to take better care of the real temple.

Take care crakjak...

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Theophilus

Perhaps I misunderstand your intent, pardon me, it seems as though you'd like to level the field and call it all good.

Again, as we can see in Matt 7, these things are not vindicators of the possession of true Holy Ghost Power on all levels. He said he in essence never knew them intimately. This naturally can apply to some OPs and OP situations, but I dare say that it is overall rare by comparision.

Therefore, it's great to see people healed by God anywhere, but I see that as a response to an enviroment for a reason beyond the healing itself. Some folks get up, respond, and seek more of God as a result, some take it as vindication of arrival.

I'm not OP, but I'm not anti-OP either. Nevertheless, although I pray God moves entire churches and denominations to all of the Truth, I can't agree that they have the same power at large based on your criteria.

The Bathroom thing, LOL, I'm troubled at those the run for the cover of one throne when they haad well be at the feet of anothers. That is no cliche I know, it just came to mind.

I seem to feel like anyone that has denounced the Power that OPs in general experience on a regular basis, having been there, is either in the wrong church or in the bathroom when much of it goes down.

Then again if people would take better care of themselves they wouldn't need so much coffee to get going for church and then they wouldn't have to, well , you know....

I've got it! Eureka! Stop the Press!

One way to greater moves of God for churches is to take better care of the real temple.

Take care crakjak...

I perceive that we agree on more than we disagree on this subject, particularly on the care of the temple of the God.

Be blessed.

Originally Posted by crakjak

Maybe the classic mistake is the arrogant attitude that others cannot access this power, because they don't fit the OP mold? God is at work in places I never imagined, and "who can hinder Him?"

That is a classic mistake as well, the disciples made it in a sense, while they were in training with Jesus.

I pray for the OPs, I do, I love them despite some of their shortcomings.

I pray and reach out to Christendom that the true way be revealed more perfectly....

I'm hearing rumors of muslims being saved and brought to Christ.

Stoneking recently tells a story in one of his sermons in Bethel Springs, TN.

Praise God, even if it is a sore spot with Americanized Christendom.

Yet, do not forget, comparing ourselves one to another with our own relevance and erroneous points of reference is dangerous as well. It's the weapon of the false push for false unity based on a lack of complete sound doctrine in the name of unity and tolerance
.

Originally Posted by crakjak

I perceive that we agree on more than we disagree on this subject, particularly on the care of the temple of the God.

Be blessed.

Likewise..God Bless.

[TopDog]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

I don't think for a moment that we are all okay! I believe that what every church in North America needs is a genuine humbling of ourselves before God, a laying down of our pride and a renewed consecration and dedication to the true power of God which is the message of the cross and the Spirit guided life made possible by the reconciliation that was accomplished for us on the cross.

We Christians are so deep in the "doo doo" of irrelevent issues that the unbeliever has a hard time finding their way to the cross anymore.

WOW - ain't that the truth!

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by crakjak

Having been around OP's for over fifty years and now having been fellowshipping with many other Christians. I have observed an interesting phenomenon, that those who embrace the Word and declare Jesus Lord, I don't see any significance difference in the results in their lives.

Healing> no difference.
Changed lives, other than outward appearances> no difference.
Love of God> no difference
Love for the Word of God> maybe stronger among non OP's.
Love of each other> no difference.

So is the proclaimed "greater power" in the lives of OP's just believing their own press, or is there real difference? After fifty+ years I say the Word in folks lives makes the difference not the OP's doctrine.

Everyone has an opinion and often those opinions are colored by some personal bias or experience. When I came into Pentecost I could not stop reading the word. I know others too in Pentecostal felt like they had discovered something new....like hidden treasure and were in total love with His word. So what did you notice different from me?

BTW when you say OP are you really meaning OP or are you just meaning Pentecostals? I would say Pentecostals and Charismatics experience more healings than other groups, not necessarily because of power, but ideology or theology

Power is not the litmus test of ones "rightness" with God. I have experienced a preacher coming in and working in gifts and felt the fire of Heaven rain in the place, only to find out in later days that he left there with his offering to go to the mission field, and met up with his mistress.

Right doctrine, and right living will win over every time. You may have power to make the moon turn green, but if your foundation is faulty, or incorrectly laid, your building will eventually falter, and crumble.