The Death Penalty

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

First... let me correct something.. they can read... I have given them books before... but there is no library of any sort available for them in the prisons I have visited.

Secondly... why get sarcastic? Just because things are different where I visit people doesn't mean that anybody is liar. I don't understand the need to do that.



Well... one would think that... at the most basic level... an education would be a great idea.

Wouldn't you agree?

They, of course, need religious rehabilitation. That is something the church could work to provide more of (we certainly don't want the state providing it)

But.. as I said... the most basic of steps toward rehabilitation would be to educate them to the point that they would be able to find themselves a place in society when they get out. Not only should education be made available... one might consider whether, as part of their sentence, each one would be required to attain a certain level of education.

Sarcastic? LOL! That certainly was not my intent, just keeping you honest thats all. There was times that I also assumed that you were being a bit sarcastic. I think that a revival throughout this country is needed, this would hopefully keep people out of prison, and for those that are already in prison I believe that there would be a transformation in there lives. However, knowing that people will be people, I know some backsliders that keep finding a way to go to jail. So, getting the HG and getting some rehab education will not always work.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

Sarcastic? LOL! That certainly was not my intent, just keeping you honest thats all. There was times that I also assumed that you were being a bit sarcastic. I think that a revival throughout this country is needed, this would hopefully keep people out of prison, and for those that are already in prison I believe that there would be a transformation in there lives. However, knowing that people will be people, I know some backsliders that keep finding a way to go to jail. So, getting the HG and getting some rehab education will not always work.

No sir.. education will not always work

Neither does preaching the gospel always fall on good ground... but.. because it does sometimes find good ground we continue to sow the seed.

I would never insinuate that education always works... but in hopes that it would work for some... I would consider a worthwhile investment.

To offer education to all that we may, by all means, save some would seem to e a good basic attempt at rehabilitation.

[ReformedDave]

Originally Posted by James Griffin

Fair question

Dave my basis is being involved in literally thousands of criminal cases.

If your question was what is excessive: Life in prison for multiple convictions of drug USE. Once again use not dealing. (And never once any attempt at rehab, not even ordering NA meetings in jail)

I once had two cases in the same week. One boy sold powered sugar, the other told a police officer he wanted to sell him forty kilos. In Texas the first is sale of a simulated substance punishable by a maximum of two years, but mandatory probation on first offense. The other considered constructive delivery was punishable by up to life in prison even though the state never proved (nor had to) that any drugs actually existed! But wasn't it virtually the same crime?

In California it is possible to get life in prison for a series of bad checks.

And yes on the other end there are ridiculously light sentences as well.

I'm of the conviction that in the US we have no objective basis for our standard of punishment. Our system is arbitrary and inconsistent at best. It obviously is not working.

How does one(or a government) deem sufficient and appropriate punishment?
How do you KNOW that drug use should not be a lifetime offense? Is this knowledge even possible?

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

I'm of the conviction that in the US we have no objective basis for our standard of punishment. Our system is arbitrary and inconsistent at best. It obviously is not working.

How does one(or a government) deem sufficient and appropriate punishment?
How do you KNOW that drug use should not be a lifetime offense? Is this knowledge even possible?

Great comments & questions

[James Griffin]

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

I'm of the conviction that in the US we have no objective basis for our standard of punishment. Our system is arbitrary and inconsistent at best. It obviously is not working.

How does one(or a government) deem sufficient and appropriate punishment?
How do you KNOW that drug use should not be a lifetime offense? Is this knowledge even possible?

If you are resorting to such existential relativism how do I know I exist or that you posted to this forum?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

What is your point? I beleive in the death penalty for those that take someone elses life (this is what the argument is about for me) The thief paid a penalty for death in a system that was in another era. ?????????

Did Christians execute the thief? The point is this Brother Eastman; those who are filled with the Spirit of God do not exact revenge, or bring judgement by deadly force on anyone. Therefore if those who are of a government (namely Roman Empire crucifixion capital punishment) would be bringing the punishment NOT the Apostolic Jesus name people.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

And if God so chooses to use a man to carry out that judgement, then I agree.

Rom 12:19

"Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord."




Jer 27:5-7

"I have made the earth, the man and the beast that are upon the ground, by my great power and by my outstretched arm, and have given it unto whom it seemed meet unto me. And now have I given all these lands into the HAND of Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, MY SERVANT; and the beasts of the field have I given him also to SERVE HIM. And all nations shall serve him, and his son, and his son's son, until the very time of his land come: and then many nations and great kings shall serve themselves of him."




Jer 25:9

"Behold, I will send and take all the families of the north, saith the LORD, and Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, MY SERVANT, and will bring them against this land, and against the inhabitants thereof, and against all these nations round about, and will UTTERLY DESTROY them, and make them an astonishment, and an hissing, and perpetual desolations."


Isa 45:1-3

"Thus saith the LORD to his ANOITED, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to SUBDUE NATIONS before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut; I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron: And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel."



Isa 44:28

"That saith of Cyrus, He is MY SHEPHEARD, and shall perform all MY PLEASURE: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid."




2Ch 36:22-23

"Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the LORD spoken by the mouth of Jeremiah might be accomplished, the LORD stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and put it also in writing, saying, Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, All the kingdoms of the earth hath the LORD God of heaven given me; and he hath charged me to build him an house in Jerusalem, which is in Judah. Who is there among you of all his people? The LORD his God be with him, and let him go up."

Ezr 1:1-3

"Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, the LORD stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and put it also in writing, saying, Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, The LORD God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he hath charged me to build him an house at Jerusalem, which is in Judah. Who is there among you of all his people? his God be with him, and let him go up to Jerusalem, which is in Judah, and build the house of the LORD God of Israel, (he is the God,) which is in Jerusalem."

I have never made any statement saying that God does NOT use men to bring judgement, God used pagans to bring destruction on those who rebelled against Him. I'm saying that the Apostolic Pentecostal Church is not to bring judgement against any human, and put them to death.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[ReformedDave]

Originally Posted by James Griffin

If you are resorting to such existential relativism how do I know I exist or that you posted to this forum?

If you don't really want to deal with the heart of the issue, that's fine but as I see it public morality reflects social convention, nothing more than that and that is a mockery of God and His word especially when a large percentage of our population call themselves Christians.