Going through the Trials

Praxeas · #1 10-16-2007, 05:23 PM

I was wondering what happened to the people of Israel that they wanted to return to Egypt. How did they lose their faith? They became complainers and only the next generation entered the promised land but for a few.

What was their problem? You know what I think it was? They were unwiling to be tried or tested. They did not understand what the wilderness was about. They did not or did not want to go through the trial. They did not understand it was for their own improvement. And as a result they displease God and never got to the promised land.

Are you thankful for trials? Knowing or should we at least know that they are or can be to make us better? Do we thwart the perfection process when we resist the trial through complaint and murmor?

What do you think? Can we end up resisting what God wants to do in us by not receiving the test?

Praxeas · #2 10-16-2007, 05:37 PM

What happens when we resist the perfection process?

For a while now I have been thinking along this line of the difference between wants and needs. For us, healing might be a need. For God physical healing might be a want. What we really need might not be what we think we need. And when we pray do we present what we think we need in terms of what we really just desire a lot or do we press God that this is something we really need and so He should do it?

Do we have our prioties right in prayer?
Luk 12:30 For all the nations of the world seek after these things, and your Father knows that you need them.
Luk 12:31 Instead, seek his kingdom, and these things will be added to you.

JaneEyre · #3 10-16-2007, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I was wondering what happened to the people of Israel that they wanted to return to Egypt. How did they lose their faith? They became complainers and only the next generation entered the promised land but for a few.

What was their problem? You know what I think it was? They were unwiling to be tried or tested. They did not understand what the wilderness was about. They did not or did not want to go through the trial. They did not understand it was for their own improvement. And as a result they displease God and never got to the promised land.

Are you thankful for trials? Knowing or should we at least know that they are or can be to make us better? Do we thwart the perfection process when we resist the trial through complaint and murmor?

What do you think? Can we end up resisting what God wants to do in us by not receiving the test?

Prax, they had selective memory.

Numbers 11:5 states:
We remember the fish, which we did eat in Egypt freely; the cucumbers, and the melons, and the leeks, and the onions, and the garlick.

They didn't rememember the beatings and how they had to work as slaves. They longed for what they knew and forgot the abuse and the mistreatment in Egypt. Kind of like the victim fondly clinging to the abuser. Thus, they longed to return to what they had called home.

They feared the unknown. Even though they had been promised a "land flowing with milk and honey", it was an unknown land. They staggered at the promises of God, in a sense, not fully trusting Him and where He was leading.

The Old Testament is our school master. What happened to them literally is happening to us in the spiritual sense. The Children of Israel didn't like the pain. They didn't like the suffering. Neither do we, so we grumble and wonder around in spiritual circles. Life seems like a nefarious riddle at times - until we look to Him for our answers.

Yes, I am thankful for trials. What kind of wimps would all of us be if we never had to be tried? As far as complaining and murmurring, I think God knows it's inevitable. Look at some of the greatest prayers of the Bible. Are they not questionings or maybe semi-complaints? David in the Psalms...Habbakuk...Job...even Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane struggled in His flesh. I think God likes for us to question Him. He made us for communication. ...How boring would it be never to question anyone in conversation!...He knows we are going to find Him when we start looking for answers. We are turning our attention to Him and we know that we are not sufficient within ourselves.

God puts the test before us. We can tear it up and throw the paper in the trash. ...OR we can attempt to respond within ourselves and fail...If we lean to our own understanding the equation won't balance....OR we can put it in His hands, ask His help, seek His will, and knock until the answer is given. I like that expression "put wings upon your problems and they become a prayer." Having the mind of Christ is the only way to truly solve the test. Relying on "our mind", solely will lead to failure.

JaneEyre · #4 10-16-2007, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

What happens when we resist the perfection process?

For a while now I have been thinking along this line of the difference between wants and needs. For us, healing might be a need. For God physical healing might be a want. What we really need might not be what we think we need. And when we pray do we present what we think we need in terms of what we really just desire a lot or do we press God that this is something we really need and so He should do it?

Do we have our prioties right in prayer?
Luk 12:30 For all the nations of the world seek after these things, and your Father knows that you need them.
Luk 12:31 Instead, seek his kingdom, and these things will be added to you.

This is when we have to pray for submission - which is totally against our carnal nature.
He's the potter. We're the clay. We can't perfect ourselves.

I read this somewhere:

When a doctoral student asked Albert Einstein "What is there left in the world for original dissertation research?" ......Albert Einstein replied, "Find out about prayer. Someone must find out about prayer"...You don't have to write a dissertation to find out about prayer, "JUST DO IT".

Praxeas · #5 10-16-2007, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaneEyre

Prax, they had selective memory.

Numbers 11:5 states:
We remember the fish, which we did eat in Egypt freely; the cucumbers, and the melons, and the leeks, and the onions, and the garlick.

They didn't rememember the beatings and how they had to work as slaves. They longed for what they knew and forgot the abuse and the mistreatment in Egypt. Kind of like the victim fondly clinging to the abuser. Thus, they longed to return to what they had called home.

They feared the unknown. Even though they had been promised a "land flowing with milk and honey", it was an unknown land. They staggered at the promises of God, in a sense, not fully trusting Him and where He was leading.

The Old Testament is our school master. What happened to them literally is happening to us in the spiritual sense. The Children of Israel didn't like the pain. They didn't like the suffering. Neither do we, so we grumble and wonder around in spiritual circles. Life seems like a nefarious riddle at times - until we look to Him for our answers.

Yes, I am thankful for trials. What kind of wimps would all of us be if we never had to be tried? As far as complaining and murmurring, I think God knows it's inevitable. Look at some of the greatest prayers of the Bible. Are they not questionings or maybe semi-complaints? David in the Psalms...Habbakuk...Job...even Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane struggled in His flesh. I think God likes for us to question Him. He made us for communication. ...How boring would it be never to question anyone in conversation!...He knows we are going to find Him when we start looking for answers. We are turning our attention to Him and we know that we are not sufficient within ourselves.

God puts the test before us. We can tear it up and throw the paper in the trash. ...OR we can attempt to respond within ourselves and fail...If we lean to our own understanding the equation won't balance....OR we can put it in His hands, ask His help, seek His will, and knock until the answer is given. I like that expression "put wings upon your problems and they become a prayer." Having the mind of Christ is the only way to truly solve the test. Relying on "our mind", solely will lead to failure.

What caused their selective memory? Is that a genetic fault or a spiritual one?

JaneEyre · #6 10-16-2007, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

What caused their selective memory? Is that a genetic fault or a spiritual one?

They were born in sin and shapen in inquity - that's "genetic" if you chose to call it that. Their fault was in remembering the "good of the bad" and not "the bad of the bad"...They remembered the fish, the melons, the leeks, the onions and the garlic in Egypt...but not the slavemasters and the abuse. They were hungry for the natural foods they loved, but not the spiritual food. They had no Bible, they had no church....They had Moses and a promise and that didn't mean as much as a hungry stomach. When people start thinking about leaving the church, this applies, too, of course. They recall the "good of the bad" - but not the "bad of the bad"....Not that there is really any good in the world, without Jesus Christ.