How can a New Organization be born out of Chaos?

[Parson]

How does an organizational split differ from a church split?

Would some of those that are splitting off to form a new organization have the same mindset if some in their congregation decided to spilt off to form a new church?

If we ARE the body of Christ COLLECTIVELY, then would not the same expecations we hold for disgruntled saints (as they gracefully and quietly leave) be held for disgruntled pastors?

If a disgruntled saint went to other members of a church to encourage them to leave and form a new church, is he less ethical than a disgruntled pastor doing the same on an organizational level?




Parson

[josh]

Originally Posted by Parson

How does an organizational split differ from a church split?

Would some of those that are splitting off to form a new organization have the same mindset if some in their congregation decided to spilt off to form a new church?

If we ARE the body of Christ COLLECTIVELY, then would not the same expecations we hold for disgruntled saints (as they gracefully and quietly leave) be held for disgruntled pastors?

If a disgruntled saint went to other members of a church to encourage them to leave and form a new church, is he less ethical than a disgruntled pastor doing the same on an organizational level?




Parson

If this is the same Parson as was on FCF, you're just asking this to stir the pot.

You got too much brains to compare the two.

Good to see you posting!

[ILG]

Originally Posted by SecretWarrior

Tulsa Meeting...January...a Group of unlike minded men coming together to decide or create a New Organization of Independants...

Interesting in itself...

What will be the breaking factor... who will lead... who will decide what standards are okay or not okay....

Some of the Big "Guns" currently use Video (moving pictures for you UC's)

I'll predict it will start with a Bang and go out with a scream (folks yelling at each other)


It's easy to schedule, conduct, and conceive, but if it's not born in Love it will die in bitterness...

10 years ago, I would have been there. I am so glad I'm not.

[Parson]

Hi Josh!


It's me. I keep turning up like a bad penny.

and....thanks for your kindness.


Actually, I am curious as to the thinking of those that are forging ahead with plans to (possibly) split off.

It seems to me that there is a double standard that is being held...one that a pastor expects from his unhappy saints....and a completely different one should he become unhappy with the organization.


Is is unrealistic to expect pastors to play by the same rules set for everyone else?

I ask the questions not to stir the pot.....but then again if one doesn't stir the pot every now and then....then what's inside tends to scorch.


Parson

[Bro-Larry]

Originally Posted by SecretWarrior

Tulsa Meeting...January...a Group of unlike minded men coming together to decide or create a New Organization of Independants...

Interesting in itself...

What will be the breaking factor... who will lead... who will decide what standards are okay or not okay....

Some of the Big "Guns" currently use Video (moving pictures for you UC's)

I'll predict it will start with a Bang and go out with a scream (folks yelling at each other)


It's easy to schedule, conduct, and conceive, but if it's not born in Love it will die in bitterness...

I'm no ultra con, so the rumored meeting in Tulsa, is a non-issue for me, but according to Paul Yongi Cho: "Everything good comes from chaos." He should know, being the pastor of the world's largest church.

[Bowas]

Originally Posted by Parson

Hi Josh!


It's me. I keep turning up like a bad penny.

and....thanks for your kindness.


Actually, I am curious as to the thinking of those that are forging ahead with plans to (possibly) split off.

It seems to me that there is a double standard that is being held...one that a pastor expects from his unhappy saints....and a completely different one should he become unhappy with the organization.


Is is unrealistic to expect pastors to play by the same rules set for everyone else?

I ask the questions not to stir the pot.....but then again if one doesn't stir the pot every now and then....then what's inside tends to scorch.


Parson

I agree with you and this is my concern also.
This is a post I made on another forum stating what I consider a problem.

I guess my concern is that there are some that may be using the UPCI to further their interests. For example, starting a new Organization/fellowship/Alliance/group/whatever.
If a person/minister in the local assembly has threatened to leave your church, but hasn't quite done it yet, but has instead got some of the fellow saints in the Church to form an Organization/fellowship/Alliance/group/whatever, and are wanting you as the pastor to do things their way or they will pull out, what should the pastor do?
There is nothing wrong with men leaving because of convictions, but to remain in to try to get as many as possible for thier proposed new
Organization/fellowship/Alliance/group/whatever is wrong.
If that is what is going on, I don't know, but sometimes I wonder.

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by Parson

How does an organizational split differ from a church split?

Would some of those that are splitting off to form a new organization have the same mindset if some in their congregation decided to spilt off to form a new church?

If we ARE the body of Christ COLLECTIVELY, then would not the same expecations we hold for disgruntled saints (as they gracefully and quietly leave) be held for disgruntled pastors?

If a disgruntled saint went to other members of a church to encourage them to leave and form a new church, is he less ethical than a disgruntled pastor doing the same on an organizational level?




Parson

If a person becomes disgruntled, is it possible for them to ever again become gruntled ?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by josh

If this is the same Parson as was on FCF, you're just asking this to stir the pot.

You got too much brains to compare the two.

Good to see you posting!

Okay, Parson is a smart guy but I'm young and naive.

What is the difference, Josh? (Not picking a fight, just how do you describe the difference?)

[Parson]

Hi Freeatlast!

If a person becomes disgruntled, is it possible for them to ever again become gruntled ?

From my experience as a member of a church where I was not pastoring, and and from my experience as a pastor...the answer is-------Rarely.

There are those that leave because of mis-steps of the pastor....or some decision the church is pursuing that is seen as undesirable. They leave quietly and without trying to take as many as they can with them. They leave the body intact.

But these are more often the exception and not the rule.


Those that leave disgruntled often do so because they have unresolved issues...personal issues that cause them to be unhappy no matter where they go.

They go from church to church dragging their baggage with them. And as soon as the new wears off...they find something that will cause them "fall out" with the pastor....or the church....or somebody.

My mentor (pastor) stated that once disgruntled....always disgruntled. He continued that I should never place a lot of responsibility upon those that came from another place disgruntled for a very long period of time.

If they came disgruntled, he said, it will not be long that they will leave disgruntled.

As stated, there are exceptions....but they are rare as hen's teeth.



Parson

[Parson]

Hi Bowas!


Thanks for your post.


I could not have stated it better.


Parson