Sleeping with Uncle Jeff

[Nina]

From the article:

According to the UPCI's bylaws, all complaints against a pastor must first be investigated by the district before the headquarters can get involved. Complaints must be submitted in writing, signed by at least two accusers, and must state the nature, place and date of the offense. Insufficient complaints are kicked back to the complaining parties, who must submit another draft.

If this process is not followed — if, for example, there is only a verbal complaint — the district cannot open an investigation. Without evidence of a proper complaint, no UPCI officials can open an investigation. And if Texas District Superintendent Danny Russo says the district isn't interested in New Life Tabernacle, there is nothing that can be done at the national level.

General Superintendent Ken Haney politely explained this after he popped into his Tampa Marriott hotel room for a lunch break between board meetings.

"I'm vaguely familiar with that," Haney says of the rift at New Life. Unfortunately, the UPCI's bylaws prevent him from attaining knowledge beyond the level of "vaguely." His hands are tied.

"Was there a complaint properly filed?" he asks, later adding, "It is my opinion...that perhaps a complaint was not properly filed. If it is properly filed, of necessity, they have to make an investigation."

And what if a complaint is properly filed, but there's a conflict of interest between the district superintendent and the minister in question, and an investigation is never opened? Does the whole thing evaporate?

Haney assured the Press that it wouldn't.

"There's too many voices," he said. "In other words, there's too many other churches in that area with pastors that would lend themselves to complaining about it and something would have to be done.

Not satisfied with the bold proclamation that "something would have to be done," Haney added that "things will be addressed."


On so many levels, this disturbs me.
I guess I've seen too much.

Nina

[FRINGE_NUTTER]

What if? Thinking about What if? This is in referring to Nina's post just above.

What if somebody's in the Good Ole Boy Network, it wouldn't matter how many people signed a letter and who investigated. Who would investigate? Just a GOB investigating a GOB. LOL. Nothing would be done. What a waste of time and effort that would be. God will be the judge. He doesn't have to investigate. He knows all of the liars, thieves, and deceivers. How some people can call themselves a pastor or a preacher is beyond my thinking. Anyone above them who endorses this kind of thing is just as guilty as the initiators and tag-a-longs. Whether it is their pastor, district superintendent or somebody from headquarters. What if's usually turn into reality. Sometimes they are reality.

God bless. God is Great!

[FRINGE_NUTTER]

Originally Posted by Nina

From the article:

According to the UPCI's bylaws, all complaints against a pastor must first be investigated by the district before the headquarters can get involved. Complaints must be submitted in writing, signed by at least two accusers, and must state the nature, place and date of the offense. Insufficient complaints are kicked back to the complaining parties, who must submit another draft.

If this process is not followed — if, for example, there is only a verbal complaint — the district cannot open an investigation. Without evidence of a proper complaint, no UPCI officials can open an investigation. And if Texas District Superintendent Danny Russo says the district isn't interested in New Life Tabernacle, there is nothing that can be done at the national level.

General Superintendent Ken Haney politely explained this after he popped into his Tampa Marriott hotel room for a lunch break between board meetings.

"I'm vaguely familiar with that," Haney says of the rift at New Life. Unfortunately, the UPCI's bylaws prevent him from attaining knowledge beyond the level of "vaguely." His hands are tied.

"Was there a complaint properly filed?" he asks, later adding, "It is my opinion...that perhaps a complaint was not properly filed. If it is properly filed, of necessity, they have to make an investigation."

And what if a complaint is properly filed, but there's a conflict of interest between the district superintendent and the minister in question, and an investigation is never opened? Does the whole thing evaporate?

Haney assured the Press that it wouldn't.

"There's too many voices," he said. "In other words, there's too many other churches in that area with pastors that would lend themselves to complaining about it and something would have to be done.

Not satisfied with the bold proclamation that "something would have to be done," Haney added that "things will be addressed."


On so many levels, this disturbs me.
I guess I've seen too much.
Nina

Me, too. That's when you have to realize that the UPCI is not "THE CHURCH" - Hopefully, some members are part of "The Church"...

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

St. Matt,

I may be wrong but I think the world is looking to the church to example healing, forgiveness, and restoration. The last thing the world needs to see is us covering our sins, beating each other up, and ostrasizing the hurting. They need to see us admitting we have the same issues but we want to help heal and restore the hurting...last time I checked we are all called to be ministers of reconcilliation.

Blessings, rhoni

Rhoni,

No one here is suggesting that we need to sweep it under the rug. But at the same time sometimes making family business public is not a good idea either.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by chosenbyone

Rhoni,

For so long, I lived with so much guilt that I could have done something to have prevented her from taking her life. I knew her for only three years and it was so difficult when she would slip into this state of depression like none I had ever witnessed before in my life.

She would just disappear and then show up at my door and she would show me the cuts along her arm and just cry. It was her deepest secret that she only shared with me. I didn't understand the illness that she had and all I could do was pray for her. I felt so inapt to stop what I feared would eventually happen.

I will never forget her as long as I live.

Dear Chosen,

You did what you could and there should be no blame on your part. People who are out of control in an area of their life turn to the things they can cantrol; their diet [anorexia/bulemia], their pain [cutting/self-mutilization]. and their surroundings [OCD behaviors like cleaning the house and organizing their lives or the lives of others].
When dealing with those who 'cut'. one of the things to ask them is what are the secondary gains they get from it and how can you replace the behavior with something less dangerous. Sometime I give my clients a rubberband to wear on their arm so they can flick it and feel the pain without cutting to open a wound for infection. There are other things also...but you have to get down to the ral reason and try to reframe their thinking or re-tell their story with a better ending. But this is counseling stuff...

The truth is...all we can do is all we can do. When I have a client and we reach a 'stuck' place and I don't know what to do next I just pray and ask God to show me what the real problem is and guide me into the right way to help them.

Please don't blame yourself. You were not the cause of her problem and you were probably the only bright spot in her life. You were the one person she trusted to tell her story. That means a lot.

Blessings, Rhoni

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Rhoni,

No one here is suggesting that we need to sweep it under the rug. But at the same time sometimes making family business public is not a good idea either.

It's the law in virtually every state that any pastor or clergy who has knowledge of a case child abuse or neglect must report it to the civil authorities. They sent 3 pastors to jail in this state after the law was first passed- just to make an example.

This inevitably will make these cases public.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Rhoni,

No one here is suggesting that we need to sweep it under the rug. But at the same time sometimes making family business public is not a good idea either.

When you are in leadership/ministry of any kind you live in a glass house. Better to confess than to try to use a smoke screen because you fool no one except yourself.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by pelathais

It's the law in virtually every state that any pastor or clergy who has knowledge of a case child abuse or neglect must report it to the civil authorities. They sent 3 pastors to jail in this state after the law was first passed- just to make an example.

This inevitably will make these cases public.

This is true. I wish I could go church to church and explain to Pastors what their responsibilities are and how to handle some of this to keep their church or themselves from being sued.

[Rhoni]

I am licensed to teach Prepare/Enrich to lay people and ministry to help them counsel in the areas of pre-marital counseling, blended families, and marriage enrichment. This combined with the laws for each state in regards to duty to report would be a good platform to minister. Who knows...maybe someday...

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

RandyWayne,

This is no new thing. If you will do the research many denominations, especially authoritarian type churches [which include many of ours] harbor pedophiles. They are safe because the church's Patriarchal hierarchy teaches women and children to submit to men over them especially those in church leadership.

Many Apsotolics refuse to prosecute so as to keep the reputation of the church in tact, or a preacher's daughter who was molested by a man in a postion of authority over her from having to testify and ruin her chance of a good marriage. After all the victim is always somehow to blame especially if it is a female. They possibly wore a slit in their skirt or a sleeve above the elbow and incited lust in one of the men in the church.

What a horrifying story. Rhoni, some may blow off your statements as so much feminist hogwash....but I agree with you. Authoritarian churches are sadly set up for this stuff to flourish.