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  #41  
Old 10-24-2007, 01:54 PM
Kutless Kutless is offline
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Originally Posted by Truthseeker View Post
not many, that's why i say we are off from what the church followed in the bible.
agreed
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  #42  
Old 10-24-2007, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Truthseeker View Post
Right every one should minister but I'm speaking about ministerial POSITION in the church such as pastor, evangelist, prophet and so on....


Then bible speaks of the office of a bishop. big difference.

doesn't speak of an office of cobishop
It never mentions "office of a pastor", so why aren't you addressing that? "Bishop" isn't listed in the 5-fold ministry.

P.S. "office" is from the same word used for "minister" in Romans 11:13, but then in Romans 12:4-6, it says:

Rom 12:4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
Rom 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
Rom 12:6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us,..."

"office" meaning - practice, act, function

How is it decided who does what within a church, and...is the person who "waits tables" less important to the whole body than the person who teaches?
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To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
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  #43  
Old 10-24-2007, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Truthseeker View Post
So it's a man made position in the church.
Why would anyone think that?

In some cases maybe. But in other cases it could be the direct will of God.
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  #44  
Old 10-24-2007, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truthseeker View Post
not many, that's why i say we are off from what the church followed in the bible.

Sad but true
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  #45  
Old 10-24-2007, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissBrattified View Post
It never mentions "office of a pastor", so why aren't you addressing that? "Bishop" isn't listed in the 5-fold ministry.

P.S. "office" is from the same word used for "minister" in Romans 11:13, but then in Romans 12:4-6, it says:

Rom 12:4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
Rom 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
Rom 12:6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us,..."

"office" meaning - practice, act, function

How is it decided who does what within a church, and...is the person who "waits tables" less important to the whole body than the person who teaches?
a pastor is not a bishop?


Overseer(bishop) is a position or office withen the church.
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  #46  
Old 10-24-2007, 02:40 PM
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Elders are bishops.


Acts 20:17
And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church.

Again, it mentions elderS of the church, not elder.

Acts 20:28-29
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. [29] For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

Look at what Paul tells these elderS:

1) Take heed therefore unto yoursleves and to the FLOCK.

It wasn't just ONE elder that was suppose to take heed to the flock, but all the elderS

2) The Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church.

Not just one overseer, but multiple. Not just one mans responsibility to feed the the church, but all of the elderS

Overseers means:

episkopos, Greek 1985, Strong’s
episkopos, ep-is'-kop-os; from Greek 1909 (epi) and Greek 4649 (skopos) (in the sense of Greek 1983 (episkopeo)); a superintendent, i.e. Christian officer in general charge of a (or the) church (literal or figurative) :- bishop, overseer.



1 Peter 5:1-3
The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed: [2] Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; [3] Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.

ElderS are told by Peter theye are to:

1) Feed the flock which is among you. ElderS not elder were charged to feed the flock.

2) Taking the oversight. They, not the elder is to take the oversight. What does a bishop do? Takes oversight.


Oversight:episkopeo, Greek 1983, Strong’s
episkopeo, ep-ee-skop-eh'-o; from Greek 1909 (epi) and Greek 4648 (skopeo); to oversee; by implication to beware :- look diligently, take the oversight.



The elder are overseers/Bishops, taking the oversight is what they do.






It is quite clear that the early church had multiple elders for each local chruch. These elders were the bishops of the church charged to take the oversight and feed the flock.




Pastor is an elder/bishop:


Ephes. 4:11
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

This is the only place the word Pastor can be found in NT. Here's the strongs def. on it:

poimen, Greek 4166, Strong’s
poimen, poy-mane'; of uncertain affinity; a shepherd (literal or figurative) :- shepherd, pastor.


It means shepherd. What does a shepherd do?

They oversee the flock.

They feed the flock.

They take heed unto the flock.

Does this sound familier? Sure it does. We have two places where the elders were told to take the oversight and feed the flock.

One major responisiblity is for the elders is to feed the flock. Of course, they are to feed with the word giving us knowledge and understanding.

Jeremiah 3:15
And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.

Jeremiah prophesied God would give pastors to feed us. We read were this was being fulfilled by the elders of the church in acts 20 and 1peter 5.

It's easy to see that the scriptures do indeed teach the church had mutliple elders which were the bishops of the church as well as Pastors.
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  #47  
Old 10-24-2007, 02:43 PM
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I would not say Bishops are the elders. I see the elders more as deacons, contrasted with bishops.
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  #48  
Old 10-24-2007, 02:45 PM
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MissBrattified MissBrattified is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truthseeker View Post
a pastor is not a bishop?


Overseer(bishop) is a position or office withen the church.
Then technically a co-pastor is also a bishop, since he is "overseeing" the church, along with the pastor. Ergo, it is a biblical position.
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"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone


"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."

--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
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  #49  
Old 10-24-2007, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
I would not say Bishops are the elders. I see the elders more as deacons, contrasted with bishops.
The bible, refers to the elders as overseers which is a bishop.
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  #50  
Old 10-24-2007, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissBrattified View Post
Then technically a co-pastor is also a bishop, since he is "overseeing" the church, along with the pastor. Ergo, it is a biblical position.
But, in the bible, there's pastors not copastor, no co anything for that matter. It's not bible.
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