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  #51  
Old 10-26-2007, 10:57 PM
Caston Smith
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Originally Posted by pelathais View Post
I met Elder Welch many years ago. I would say that his church today tends to be "progressive" (though I hate when that term is used among Apostolics) in many ways. Many of the standards that you describe are not followed there.

From your standpoint, are they "slipping" or is it just "apples and oranges" to you?
Standards is the least of the Pensacola church's problems ... but we won't go there.
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  #52  
Old 10-26-2007, 11:38 PM
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Felicity Felicity is offline
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Originally Posted by helen_febus View Post
It is amazing how creative we have become in Pentecost. Well, we have had alot of help. Remember when preachers would define a word in the bible to say with authority that he found a particular word in Websters dictionary?
The problem with that is the bible was not written in English, so Mr. Webster unfortunately has been misleading us for almost a century.
Words that are not defined properly will ultimately lead to faulty concepts.
Let us take grace as a classic example. If you ask most folks what the definition of grace is they will blurt out "unmerited favor". Since the word is found in the bible that means that it was either a Greek or a Hebrew word.

OT:2580
chen (khane); from OT:2603; graciousness, i.e. subjective (kindness, favor) or objective (beauty):

NT:5485

charis (khar'-ece); from NT:5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude):

Unmerited favor is found in the Websters dictionary. The above definitions of grace are found in the Strongs concordance.

Most of the time grace in the old test. refers to favor that was MERITED. Noah found favor or grace in the eyes of the Lord. Of course there are scriptures that speak of gratitude and graciousness.
In the new test. we find grace as an enabler. It does not fit into the context of scripture that gives us the understanding that it is unmerited.
We get grace THROUGH faith. Faith is information (the word) acted upon thus we access grace through it.
Grace is the power of God that enables the church to do its business. Without it we cannot be saved. We cant preach without it, cant build the church without it. Charis (grace) is the root word for charisma. We cannot operate the gifts of the spirit without grace.
The danger of defining this word incorrectly is because it has watered down salvation. We basically got this concept from the Baptists. It breeds a sloppy walk. The scriptures teach otherwise.Grace teaches this:
Titus 2:11-12

11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

Grace teaches us to be holy,grace convicts us of sin. It is not a margin of error, it is not sloppy salvation. It does not accommodate sin. But there are some that would like to water down the power of grace to suit their sinful agenda, turning Gods grace into a lawlessness.

Jude 4

4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
KJV

God bless you
Really enjoyed this post!
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Smiles & Blessings....
~Felicity Welsh~

(surname courtesy of Jim Yohe)
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  #53  
Old 10-27-2007, 12:38 AM
RunningOnFaith RunningOnFaith is offline
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Originally Posted by keith4him View Post
One of the more intelligent posts that I have read in a while.
Ditto
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  #54  
Old 10-27-2007, 12:59 AM
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pelathais pelathais is offline
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Originally Posted by James Griffin View Post
I grew up in Florida, met Bro Welch several times as a child. Know his kin, and church people in Pensacola. Can only imagine how mortified he would by your attitude.
Well I trust that he would not have read into what I said whatever it was that you read into it. ???

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Originally Posted by Caston Smith View Post
Standards is the least of the Pensacola church's problems ... but we won't go there.
Hmmm... and now we see the offhanded slander.
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  #55  
Old 10-27-2007, 01:02 AM
Caston Smith
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Originally Posted by pelathais View Post
Well I trust that he would not have read into what I said whatever it was that you read into it. ???


Hmmm... and now we see the offhanded slander.
Oh no, it's not slander ... I don't know how often you get to go to Pensacola, or if you know what goes on ... but just trust me, standards are the least of their worries ...
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  #56  
Old 10-27-2007, 01:05 AM
Barb Barb is offline
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Originally Posted by Caston Smith View Post
I heard this term when I was younger, people referred to us as "3 Steppers" supposedly we got this name from the PCI years ago .... any "3 Steppers" out there?



As a PAJCer, let me say that I never heard of "3 steppers" or "one steppers" till I came to forum life, however, if truth be told, "3 steppers" is a misnomer.

"He that cometh to God must FIRST believe..."
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  #57  
Old 10-27-2007, 01:10 AM
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pelathais pelathais is offline
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Originally Posted by Caston Smith View Post
Oh no, it's not slander ... I don't know how often you get to go to Pensacola, or if you know what goes on ... but just trust me, standards are the least of their worries ...
Every couple of years. (I'm under cover online, so I can't get into details). I have many friends there and family that ministers for them frequently.

What "goes on there" that has aroused your concern? They aren't doing the Black Masses with the goat-head costumes anymore, are they?
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  #58  
Old 10-27-2007, 01:16 AM
Caston Smith
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Originally Posted by Barb View Post
As a PAJCer, let me say that I never heard of "3 steppers" or "one steppers" till I came to forum life, however, if truth be told, "3 steppers" is a misnomer.

"He that cometh to God must FIRST believe..."
My family's roots in Oneness Pentecostalism are in the PAJC ... and I've heard this 3 stepper stuff all my life. The church my Grandpa pastors which was started by my Grandmother's brother they were PAJC and their overseer at that time was Bishop J. T. Bass, but from my understanding the PAJC grew to a very small group, and I suppose in Florida it died down. (Note this was before my time, I just know what I've been told) however I've heard the term 3 stepper used all my life. Maybe it's different where you're from. I honestly don't know ...
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  #59  
Old 10-27-2007, 01:21 AM
Encryptus Encryptus is offline
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Originally Posted by pelathais View Post
Every couple of years. (I'm under cover online, so I can't get into details). I have many friends there and family that ministers for them frequently.

What "goes on there" that has aroused your concern? They aren't doing the Black Masses with the goat-head costumes anymore, are they?
well I hear they allow visiting hair bobbers!
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  #60  
Old 10-27-2007, 05:00 AM
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timlan2057 timlan2057 is offline
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Originally Posted by pelathais View Post
To answer your question, "How many..." I'd say that depends. There's a very vocal contingent of "conservative" and "ultraconservatives" that adhere to the 3 Stepper way. They seem to post in packs and then fall silent for a time.
Good observation.

I originated the term "posse" on NFCF for this particular pack.

The term was then misused and perverted (which was certainly their right) to mean they were a group of knights in shining armor; Roy Rogers, Randolph Scott, Tell Sackett, The Lone Ranger and those guys riding in splendid glory.

Going strictly by their posting habits and styles I peeved some folks by correcting this misconception.

The "posse" was more a group of bewhiskered dry gulchers and rogue outlaws who banded together basically ganging up on newbies and "women and children" but who either just disappeared back into the gulches and ravines or who went whining to board administrators when faced with someone who could give as much or more guff back to them as what they thought they dished out.
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