Bishop Jakes Responses to His Critics!!

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by tbpew

you mean like....
All trinitarians are lost?

I am very glad to hear that you are moving away from things that have already been discussed

Really? That one has been run into the ground, but SE or OP or WH is always laying hands on it and resurrecting it.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Sherri

I think none of us really understand God. That's what I think!

He is infinite and we aren't; I think the godhead is a mystery. I have my ideas, but I don't condemn those who don't agree. I don't call myself oneness or trinitarian; I don't like either term. Neither is Biblical. If you asked our people which they were, they wouldn't even understand the question. We don't make an issue of it, but we do baptize in Jesus' name because that's what we see in scripture.

My pursuit of a personal knowledge and relationship with Jesus brought me to this attitude as well. My desire is actually to know Him, rather than just know about Him. It is no longer "the issue", yet I too agree baptism is to be in Jesus Name.

[ReformedDave]

Originally Posted by crakjak

My Views on the Godhead
Jakes responds to Christianity Today article, "Apologetics Journal Criticizes Jakes."
By Bishop T. D. Jakes | Hearsay, not heresy.

I am not a theologian, and I avoid quoting even theologians who agree with me. To defend my beliefs, I go directly to the Bible.

While I agree his thinking is about as deep as all the other TV 'ministers' he does express a theology. He's a theologian....a bad one but a theologian none the less.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by Sherri

I would say that most people on here buy books that were written by trinitarians. What's the difference? You are supporting them! Why would you criticize someone because a trinitarian buys their stuff???? Doesn't make sense, IMO.

Sherri, I dont think sola gratia is criticizing them simply for the fact that Trinitarians buy their books and materials etc.

I think his point is that with some of these people, because the majority of their "market" is in the Trinitarian realm, they're a bit reluctant to make waves with the doctrinal issue. Essentialy they end up hiding or downplaying what they really believe.

Not a shocking statement there. Unfortunately, a lot of Oneness/Apostolic ministers try to appease Trinitarians to varying degrees. Its unfortunate, but it happens.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by crakjak

The language in the doctrinal statement of our ministry that refers to the Trinity of the Godhead as "manifestations" does not derive from modalism.

No Oneness preacher I know of would use a phrase like that, referring to the "Trinity of the Godhead".

I also remember an old message (entitled "Preview of a Coming Attraction") from the Azusa Conference in Tulsa, OK in about 1993, in which Jakes clearly said the number 3 in the bible represents Trinity. I was stunned to hear that, since that was the first time I had heard such a blatantly Trinitarian statement come out of his mouth.

I dont know why so many Apostolics try to make this man something he is not. Basen on his words, he's clearly not Oneness, but it seems like so many Oneness believers want to "claim" him as being one of us.

I have nothing against the man personally, but I am never impressed by any preacher who comes out of a Oneness church and then either changes or waters down his doctrine.

Seems silly to be critical of a man that has baptized 23,000 in Jesus Name when some here have only baptized 23. We will have to stand next to him at the judgement.

[Steve Epley]

He is laughing all the way to the bank.

And yes I do believe ALL Trinitarians are lost. I am NOT happy about it but that is the facts.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

He is laughing all the way to the bank.

And yes I do believe ALL Trinitarians are lost. I am NOT happy about it but that is the facts.

Just so you don't believe they are ALL headed to a literal fiery hellhole for billions of years of endless torture.
Of course, Jesus came to seek and to save the LOST, so those believing trinny's should be easy for Him to find.

[mfblume]

The word TRINITY in and of itself is not a bad term in oneness theology. Trinity simply means THREE IN UNITY. But if it is a matter of THREE persons in unity, then that is wrong. But three manifestations in unity is a trinity and is altogether correct.

But since TRINITY is mostly known and recognized as referring to THREE PERSONS, it is a ploy for a oneness person to imply manifestations when using the words, knowing that trinitarians with faith in three persons will not realize the ploy and let it slip by, thus avoiding confrontation and persecution.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by mfblume

The word TRINITY in and of itself is not a bad term in oneness theology. Trinity simply means THREE IN UNITY. But if it is a matter of THREE persons in unity, then that is wrong. But three manifestations in unity is a trinity and is altogether correct.

But since TRINITY is mostly known and recognized as referring to THREE PERSONS, it is a ploy for a oneness person to imply manifestations when using the words, knowing that trinitarians with faith in three persons will not realize the ploy and let it slip by, thus avoiding confrontation and persecution.

So which do you think Jakes is doing?