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  #31  
Old 10-30-2007, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILG View Post
Awesome story Steve. Was it primarily your Mother or your Father's conviction that led him back to the OOM? It sounds like you grew up in a great family.
I think it was primarily my mother who wanted to rejoin the Old Order Church.

I have very few regrets concerning the way I was raised.
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"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005

I am a firm believer in the Old Paths

Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945

"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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  #32  
Old 10-30-2007, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
It is true... but more in a way of determining when someone sinned. They had to go to the one who stands as Peter for forgiveness before they could be saved and enter the gates.
I suspect it is a misunderstanding of the doctrine of closed communion (which Amish and Mennonites practice) and the reconciliation process after willful transgression. It is not seen as the minister granting pardon for sins, but the interview and confession is to determine whether they now agree to abide by the Ordnung, and agree to forsake the way of transgression before being declared in good standing with the church. Some Apostolics practice this to a degree. Indeed i see some benefits to closed communion.

My friend is a Lutheran Pastor (Missouri Synod) and they practice closed communion as well. He would not serve communion to someone he knows drinks and drives. In that sense he is judging them fit/unfit for communion, but I don't think he would say they are assuredly damned.
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"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005

I am a firm believer in the Old Paths

Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945

"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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  #33  
Old 10-30-2007, 07:17 PM
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commonsense commonsense is offline
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Wink

What a great testimony. Does your background give you a greater ability to testify?
It was interesting that you were permitted to attend public school. Did you go on to college?

(When is your book coming out?)
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  #34  
Old 10-30-2007, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by AmazingGrace View Post
Ok I have to tell you a story Bro Hoover that should give you a good chuckle.. when we first bought our building in bethany ok. It had been owned by the hdqtrs of the mennonite church there and from what I am told it was the very strict order of mennonites as well. Everything seemed in order.. nothing was overdone... well.. except for the pink flamingos someone had painted alllllllllll over the church when they were leaving?!?!? We still havent figured that one out! But here is the funniest part... someone asked them if they had phone lines etc installed and they informed us NOT absolutely NOT that was not like them and they wouldnt do that! They even came out and moved their buggies I kid you not when they were leaving... but as we were renovating the parsonage which would end up being my families home... guess what we found in the master bdrm closet???? PHONE JACKS Andddddddd internet connections and a computer monitor!!!!!!!!! we all had a little laugh over that.. then one of the people came back and very meekly asked for their monitor back
Very funny!


There actually is a group in Canada, an Old Order split, that does the horse and buggy for transportation but has recently allowed laptop computers for "business purposes".
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"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005

I am a firm believer in the Old Paths

Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945

"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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  #35  
Old 10-30-2007, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commonsense View Post
What a great testimony. Does your background give you a greater ability to testify?
It was interesting that you were permitted to attend public school. Did you go on to college?

(When is your book coming out?)
Common, I am not sure about the greater ability part... but it is an immediate conversation starter in most any setting. It certainly has opened unique discussions on many occaisions.

As to the public school - it was discouraged, but not "forbidden". My family were pioneers in the local settlement and there was no existing private school and they choose the public option.

No college degree - only GED and techinal schools.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005

I am a firm believer in the Old Paths

Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945

"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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  #36  
Old 10-30-2007, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Margies3 View Post
Steve, what a great page you put together!!! NICE!!!

I'd really love to hear more details about your story if you ever have time. Tell us what your siblings are doing now. Are they still OOM? (except the one we know is Pentecostal) Did your father farm? If so, what kind of farming did he do? How is it that you were all allowed to go to public school?

I could go on and on because I have LOTS of questions. I'm not "questioning" you, I'm interested!

And one more question:
My ancestors (in the very early 1800's) came to Fulton County in Ohio because they were Amish-Mennonite. Do you know what that might mean? Were they Amish? Or were they Mennonite?

Someone mentioned that the Yoder name is so dominate in Pennsylvania. Here in NW Ohio if you are Amish-Mennonite descent than you will have a connection to the Stuckey's. MOST of the people in the western part of our county are related to the Stuckey's (that's my line, by the way. My great grandmother was a Stuckey)
Hey we might be kin!! LOL!

I'll share more later.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005

I am a firm believer in the Old Paths

Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945

"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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  #37  
Old 10-30-2007, 07:55 PM
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Negatives and Positives of the Old Order Mennonite Church


Negatives
• Though many unconverted souls came to Christ and a believers baptism through the teachings of Menno Simons, today’s Old Order Mennonites have all but ceased sharing the gospel and making disciples to those outside their own communities.

• Early Anabaptists wrote of the operation of the gifts of the Spirit in their midst. Today the predominant view appears to be cessationist.

• The ultra conservative lifestyle and distinctive dress go beyond basic modesty and the Christianity they wish to portray, and speaks much of the subculture they have developed among themselves.



Positives
• The Old Order Mennonites recognize Christ’s body and work outside of the Mennonite faith and are nonjudgmental toward Christians who do not share their own convictions.

Disclaimer: Some who leave the OOM after being a member, are held to another standard since they have “known a better way”.

• Their humanitarian efforts are notable and extend beyond the community of believers.

• A high premium is placed on being Christ-like, and a rather low premium on verbal declarations of the same.

• The family unit is viewed as a sacred institution and the simplicities of honesty, integrity, and wholesome living abound in Old Order Mennonite families.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005

I am a firm believer in the Old Paths

Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945

"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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  #38  
Old 10-30-2007, 08:13 PM
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Here is a little article I wrote. It was published in the Pentecostal Herald in Sept. 2005

“Radical Reformers”

The Minister was responding to questions regarding
Matthew 28:19,

“From this it must not be understood that there are
three beings, or three persons, much less that there
are three Gods in Heaven.”

Certainly this is a man who is not embracing the
historical creeds as this statement alone would label
him as an “unorthodox” preacher, if not a heretic.
His audience includes new converts to the faith as
well as youth from within the movement. At risk of
alienating himself even further from the mainstream
Christianity of the day the Bishop continued,

“ But these names are differently expressed in
consideration of the work of redemption and the
salvation of the human race; as, the Father, the
origin; the Son, the means of redemption; and the Holy
Ghost, sanctification and confirmation in salvation"

“For, although it is said by some men, that there are
three independent Persons or Beings in the Godhead,
and therefore say further: “God the Father, God the
Son, and God the Holy Ghost,” yet we do not find such
expressions in Holy Scripture.”

Is this a modern day Pentecostal, giving a defense for
the Oneness of the Godhead?
Or perhaps an early Pentecostal discussing the “New
Issue”?

No. It was more than two centuries prior to the New
Issue debate. The man is Gerhard Roosen (1612-1711), a
prominent Mennonite bishop in Northern Germany. His
writings were recorded in Chistliches
Gemueths-Gespraech , the later, English version is in
a book titled Saving Faith which included other
Anabaptist/Mennonite Articles of Faith as well. To
this day the book is used in instruction for youth and
others seeking membership with the Old Order Mennonite
Church.

They were called the Radical Reformers, rejecting not
only the Papal authority of the Catholic Church but,
the infant Baptism of the Lutherans as well. Known
for their insistence on a “believers baptism” their
enemies labeled them as re-baptizers, or “Anabaptist”.
For this they suffered persecution at the hands of
Catholics and Reformers alike.

Such famous men as Luther and Zwingli called them
heretics. Unlike the Anabaptists’ nonresistance,
Luther and Zwingli defended their teaching with the
sword and the new Radical Reformers faced great
persecution. Thousands were burned and drowned by the
religious men of the day. Adhering to a quite
literal interpretation of the Sermon on the Mount the
Anabaptists were known to love and pray for those who
hated them. Many of their captors were converted by
their incredible acts of kindness in the face cruelty
and torture.

While the early Anabaptists did not all reject the
doctrine of the Trinity entirely, they did reject the
creeds and insisted on using only the scripture as a
basis for doctrine. This led many to question the
veracity of such a dogma and statements like Roosens’
were not uncommon in early Anabaptist teaching.

A strict lifestyle of holiness was taught and expected
among Anabaptist groups and one who was born again was
expected to give himself to a life of non-conformity,
separation and humility.

It has been said that the Pentecostal holiness
churches of today have their roots in the Anabaptist
movement. Not only in some doctrine and lifestyle,
but the zeal found in the Apostolic Pentecostal
movement may certainly be a mirror reflection of those
Radical Reformers in 16th and 17th centuries.

A former Old Order Mennonite, Stephen his wife Kristin
and three daughters attend -----------------, Mo.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005

I am a firm believer in the Old Paths

Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945

"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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  #39  
Old 10-30-2007, 08:49 PM
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Margies3 Margies3 is offline
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Stephen, that is a very well written and VERY interesting article. Thank you for posting it.

So it appears that perhaps my ancestors actually understood Oneness and just didn't know it, eh?

On a completely different note, I was sitting here wondering: Do your girls even begin to comprehend the rich heritage that they were born with? Something that not alot of other children that they know can claim, that's for sure.
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  #40  
Old 10-30-2007, 09:55 PM
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Trouvere Trouvere is offline
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Originally Posted by Digging4Truth View Post
While I would not be supportive of such prohibitions and forming of others convictions I sometimes wonder how much better off we would be if we could free ourselves of this love affair with the adorning of modern dress.
Wait let me get my pilgrim dress out of the barn.
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