The Trouble With Patience

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by Ferd

Like colleges do. you put money in a fund and use the intrest gained. all new money goes into the fund thus year by year the amount you can use grows as well.

you can invest the funds in many different ways from real estate to Tbills. The arguement against it is it turns the church into a business. but we are competing with everyone else and they have hospitals and universities (real ones)

We have a Stewardship department. Is this something you would advocate they handle?

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

I spent 23 years in the UPCI, 8 years as a Missionary, and another 4 years as a District Foreign Missions Director. I have spent 10 years in another organization that is the oldest onesness organization in Canada going back to 1921 and their mindset was just what you are advocating, a fellowship of churches and ministers.

My personal opinion is that in spite of the top heavy aspect of the UPCI it is far better as a centralized focused organization then it would be as just a fellowship of ministers. There is amazing strength to accomplish great things for God when churches and pastors are mobilized by a common cause such as their message, and its missions program.

While a fellowship of ministers and churches sounds great, I don't think it works well in reality. Any group that has followed this path hasn't experienced much growth from what I have observed.

I was District Leader for two years in the group I'm with. During that time the number of churches in our district declined because the only association with ACOP was the pastor. When some churches voted in non ACOP pastors the new pastor tended to fellowship with whatever group he was associated with rather than with us.

I have to say that I never minded deputation when we were missionaries. I found it invigorating and encouraging to be back in North America where I could share my vision and burden in person. We always felt that it was a privilege to spend time with pastors and considered travel a great social and educational experience for our family.

my assumptions may be completely wrong. thanks for the balance.

For the UPCI to be more conneted and to opporate as a real organziation, we need a "coming to Jesus meeting" we have too many groups with vastly different agendas.

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by rrford

Or we could simply fulfill the original goal of Foreign Missions. That would be to send a Missionary; let him evangelize; let him then train leadership; let those leaders take over; let the Missionary go somewhere else.

Seems we have a US political approach tro Foreign works. "They can't survive without us." Reckon we may never know.

you know we are both talking about taking away someone's toys right?

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by rrford

The ONLY way this would be successful is to let someone OUTSIDE of the UPCI handle the investments. We do not need to do this in-house.

you might be right. I know just about every other denomination has some form of this in place that works well.

there are lots of issues that would have to be worked out, like who gets to control the money.... but what we are doing has had limited success.

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

We have a Stewardship department. Is this something you would advocate they handle?

LOL! PP, im a big idea guy. the details would need to be handled by someone else.

[rrford]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

We have a Stewardship department. Is this something you would advocate they handle?

NO! ABSOLUTELY NOT!

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by rrford

Obviously it was preferred that they went through the District as far as individual support. There was no deduction from what was sent. 100% went to the Missionary.

Also, the percentage of CFC that stayed in the District was used primarily to support Home Missionaries. At one time we had 4 or 5 men receiving between $400-$1200 per month for a year at a time. After that year they could re-apply for further support.

In Illinois the support is incredible. I actually received calls asking me to apply for financial aid. When a sister church gave us a huge offering we worked out a deal to filter it through the district.

I am in the process of regifting that money back to the district.

That church made a wise investment and because of it, our church plant survived. Their sacrificial giving made a huge difference.

I often give monies (outside of our mechanisims) to specific home missionaries and foreign missionaries that I feel are hungry and giving it all they've got.

I despise the idea that a man can steal 30-40 saints, open a building up across town, and then fly under the home missions flag. I won't support it.

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by rrford

NO! ABSOLUTELY NOT!

Why not?

Isn't that the whole idea of a Stewardship department?

[rrford]

Originally Posted by Ferd

you know we are both talking about taking away someone's toys right?

"When I was a child I spake as a child, I understood as a chuild, I thought as a child. But when I became a MAN I put away childish things."

Notice the progression: As a child one speaks without understanding or thinking. In time there may be a modicum of understanding based upon experience and observation but eventually thought develops and then the process should be reversed.

In other words, at maturity one thinks until they understand. Then, and only then, do they speak.

It is time to move beyond the teenage years of Foreign Missions into adulthood. Adults allow other folks to mature and then live on their own with background support only.

[rrford]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

Why not?

Isn't that the whole idea of a Stewardship department?

It is the idea of course. BUt then again so is good stewardship. I personally would like to see a good track record of monies invested and returns from our Stewardship dept. before such an unudertaking in-house.

I have a feeling that it would actually cost less to let an outside entity handle it. As well as covering the ethical side of the issue.