The Initial Physical Evidence

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

Gal. 3:2 The apostle Paul was grieved with those who thought they earned the spirit. Let me paraphrase. "Galatians, please let me know, just how did you got the Holy Ghost? Did you recieve it by any good thing you did, OR BY HEARING THE GOSPEL AND HAVING FAITH?"

Now I know you'll say that all he was speaking to had spoke in tongues. That is an assumption that has no proof in scripture.

Rememeber Faith cometh by hearing. The galatians were reminded that they had heard the gospel, believed the gospel and had thereby received the spirit by faith.

Yes, faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God! Just suppose

you are sitting in your living room, reading your newspaper. etc. and your

neighbor knocks on your door and says, dear neighbor, not to alarm you,

but your house is on fire. Please get out! If you really believed what your

neighbor said, you would do something. You would get out. There would be

some action. You might say, Thank you, I believe, but you went back over

to your easy chair and continued reading your newspaper and disregarded

the warning, you didn't believe, you just said you did!! Your actions showed

you did not truly believe!!! True faith will cause action! You'll want to do

what the Word of God says. There is a waiting period between the time a

child is conceived and the time to be born. Go out into your garden, plant

some seeds into the soil. Get up the next week and go out there and look

for some veggies. It isn't going to happen. After the seed is sown, then...

first the blade, then the corn, etc., and then the full ear in the corn., etc.

It is a process! Those Galatians had heard (seed sown) and believed (faith)

and had received! A husband sows seed and by faith, the Father (GOD) and

mother (church) know that in the fullness of time, there will be a birth,

unless there is an interference to terminate this process. It could be a

spontaneous miscarrige/abortion due to something that didn't take or etc.

But if everythings goes well, there will be signs along the way that indicate

this faith-child will be born. Movement, also signs will become evident on the

outside that there is indeed growth going on in the inside.

In the fullness of time (full-term) there will be some signs also that the seed

planted on the inside will be coming out to the outside because seed sown in

faith, grows and produces!!

Paul said. My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be

formed in you. Sounds much like a mother (church) that keeps having trouble

carrying the children to term/birth. Something keeps going wrong!! But Paul,

a true spiritual father, keeps trying again, sowing the Word of God, until this

Faith/Child be fully carried to term and birthed! Begotten by the Gospel!!

Just some more thoughts!! Not to be argumentive or offensive!

Blessings,

Falla39

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by Falla39

Yes, faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God! Just suppose

you are sitting in your living room, reading your newspaper. etc. and your

neighbor knocks on your door and says, dear neighbor, not to alarm you,

but your house is on fire. Please get out! If you really believed what your

neighbor said, you would do something. You would get out. There would be

some action. You might say, Thank you, I believe, but you went back over

to your easy chair and continued reading your newspaper and disregarded

the warning, you didn't believe, you just said you did!! Your actions showed

you did not truly believe!!! True faith will cause action! You'll want to do

what the Word of God says. There is a waiting period between the time a

child is conceived and the time to be born. Go out into your garden, plant

some seeds into the soil. Get up the next week and go out there and look

for some veggies. It isn't going to happen. After the seed is sown, then...

first the blade, then the corn, etc., and then the full ear in the corn., etc.

It is a process! Those Galatians had heard (seed sown) and believed (faith)

and had received! A husband sows seed and by faith, the Father (GOD) and

mother (church) know that in the fullness of time, there will be a birth,

unless there is an interference to terminate this process. It could be a

spontaneous miscarrige/abortion due to something that didn't take or etc.

But if everythings goes well, there will be signs along the way that indicate

this faith-child will be born. Movement, also signs will become evident on the

outside that there is indeed growth going on in the inside.

In the fullness of time (full-term) there will be some signs also that the seed

planted on the inside will be coming out to the outside because seed sown in

faith, grows and produces!!

Paul said. My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be

formed in you. Sounds much like a mother (church) that keeps having trouble

carrying the children to term/birth. Something keeps going wrong!! But Paul,

a true spiritual father, keeps trying again, sowing the Word of God, until this

Faith/Child be fully carried to term and birthed! Begotten by the Gospel!!

Just some more thoughts!! Not to be argumentive or offensive!

Blessings,

Falla39

BUMP, BUMP, BUMPITY, BUMP, BUMP

[freeatlast]

Very nice analogies Falla, but once again Falla, let me remind you that analogies do not establish nor prove doctrines, only scripture does that.

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

Very nice analogies Falla, but once again Falla, let me remind you that analogies do not establish nor prove doctrines, only scripture does that.

Bro. FreeAtLast,

Let's dialogue! What is to be refuted about my post! Perhaps

we can both learn something new! I am a very open person and

am open for sincere discussion! I certainly don't claim to know

everything. But I do know about some things. As you do also!!!

Blessings,

Falla39

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by Falla39

Bro. FreeAtLast,

Let's dialogue! What is to be refuted about my post! Perhaps

we can both learn something new! I am a very open person and

am open for sincere discussion! I certainly don't claim to know

everything. But I do know about some things. As you do also!!!

Blessings,

Falla39

Your analogy seems to me to bear out that the church has so much to do with birthing new folks.

With much travail and pain and effort, WE bring these new ones to life.

Other than us planting the seed of faith, we have very little to do with a souls new birth. That's between the sinner and the Holt Spirit.

Our planting and watering is all God needs us to do. He has done the rest on Calvary.

The sinners part is to hear in faith. Confess with his mouth. Believe with all his/her heart and accept, take hold of the promise of the Father of Eternal life to those who believe and trust in Christ.

Dear Sis Falla you and i have both been baptized in the name of the Lord.
You feel it was "for" the remission of your sins,
I feel it was "because" of the remission of my sins.

We've both spoke in a heavenly language. You may believe that when you did, you recieved the Holy Spirit.

I feel that I spoke in tongues because the Spirit "fell on me/ came on me or filled me. The gift of Eternal life had allready been sealed for me. This gift of tongues was for my edification in prayer.

We believe different things about the same thing's

I speak in tongues often, but do not feel it has anything to do with my salvation or anyone elses for that matter.

There are many here that believe until you speak in tongues you got didly squat.

Been there/ done that/ believed that/ got the T shirt...but found it just plain did not fit.

Originally Posted by freeatlast

Your analogy seems to me to bear out that the church has so much to do with birthing new folks.

With much travail and pain and effort, WE bring these new ones to life.

Other than us planting the seed of faith, we have very little to do with a souls new birth. That's between the sinner and the Holt Spirit.

Our planting and watering is all God needs us to do. He has done the rest on Calvary.

The sinners part is to hear in faith. Confess with his mouth. Believe with all his/her heart and accept, take hold of the promise of the Father of Eternal life to those who believe and trust in Christ.

Dear Sis Falla you and i have both been baptized in the name of the Lord.
You feel it was "for" the remission of your sins,
I feel it was "because" of the remission of my sins.

We've both spoke in a heavenly language. You may believe that when you did, you recieved the Holy Spirit.

I feel that I spoke in tongues because the Spirit "fell on me/ came on me or filled me. The gift of Eternal life had allready been sealed for me. This gift of tongues was for my edification in prayer.

We believe different things about the same thing's

I speak in tongues often, but do not feel it has anything to do with my salvation or anyone elses for that matter.

There are many here that believe until you speak in tongues you got didly squat.

Been there/ done that/ believed that/ got the T shirt...but found it just plain did not fit.

I disagree. I believe many here understand that until someone has spoken in tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance, that they have not received the Spirit. However, I don't believe that anyone here with this doctrine believes that someone has nothing until then, just that it's an important part of the new birth that cannot be sidelined as optional.

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by Theophilus

I disagree. I believe many here understand that until someone has spoken in tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance, that they have not received the Spirit. However, I don't believe that anyone here with this doctrine believes that someone has nothing until then, just that it's an important part of the new birth that cannot be sidelined as optional.

You said received. Excuse for not going to refence books, but from memory i think there are over 18 DIFFERENT hebrew and greek words that get translated into our one inadequate english word "recieved".

Because of the slight difference meaning each one of these words held to the the people they were adressed to, we fail to understand some of the subtle difference implied in the original script.

The word, Lambano used in acts 8 for recieved indicative of a falling on of the spirit. The spirit came upon them or they were filled with the spirit.

Just as John's mother Elizabeth was "filled witht the Holy Ghost" before Pentecost, and she manifested
So was Zacharias , his father "filled" with the holy ghost before Pentecost and the manifestion was prophcy.

It is the receiving "manifestion" of the holy ghost that Paul said in 1 Cor 12:7
" but the manifestion of the Spirit is given to every man to profit."
vs 8 thru 11 name manifestions that God gives to everone to profit. The word of wisdom/word of knowledge/faith/healing/working of miracles/prophecy/discernmet of spirits/ tongues/ interpretation of tongues.

Verse 11 is so overlooked in this passage. "The Spirit dividing to everyman severally as HE WILL. (we force it to be only tongues)

Verse 18,19 states again. " God set members, everyone of them, in the body, AS IT PLEASED HIM. And if they were all one member, where were the body.
Again God does as He pleases, with us though, we are only pleased with tongues as the manifestation.

The only thing that Please us is tongues.

God is clear, He manifests thru us , his church , as He see fit.

Because we have an historical account of a few differnet ethnic groups that were NOT ACCEPTED amongst the Jew's, God let the unbelieving Jew's hear a manifestion of his Spirit to be a reminder to them that God had "Fallen upon" them just as he had them, in the begining at Pentecost.


I know we say Acts only has tongues in it only when salvation occurs.

Please read it and note all the chapters that speak the language of people coming to faith by hearing and accepting the word with out any mention of tongues. There are far more of these accounts than the accounts that a manifestion of tongues was a witness of the Spirit coming upon a believer.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

You said received. Excuse for not going to refence books, but from memory i think there are over 18 DIFFERENT hebrew and greek words that get translated into our one inadequate english word "recieved".

Because of the slight difference meaning each one of these words held to the the people they were adressed to, we fail to understand some of the subtle difference implied in the original script.

The word, Lambano used in acts 8 for recieved indicative of a falling on of the spirit. The spirit came upon them or they were filled with the spirit.

Just as John's mother Elizabeth was "filled witht the Holy Ghost" before Pentecost, and she manifested
So was Zacharias , his father "filled" with the holy ghost before Pentecost and the manifestion was prophcy.

It is the receiving "manifestion" of the holy ghost that Paul said in 1 Cor 12:7
" but the manifestion of the Spirit is given to every man to profit."
vs 8 thru 11 name manifestions that God gives to everone to profit. The word of wisdom/word of knowledge/faith/healing/working of miracles/prophecy/discernmet of spirits/ tongues/ interpretation of tongues.

Verse 11 is so overlooked in this passage. "The Spirit dividing to everyman severally as HE WILL. (we force it to be only tongues)

Verse 18,19 states again. " God set members, everyone of them, in the body, AS IT PLEASED HIM. And if they were all one member, where were the body.
Again God does as He pleases, with us though, we are only pleased with tongues as the manifestation.

The only thing that Please us is tongues.

God is clear, He manifests thru us , his church , as He see fit.

Because we have an historical account of a few differnet ethnic groups that were NOT ACCEPTED amongst the Jew's, God let the unbelieving Jew's hear a manifestion of his Spirit to be a reminder to them that God had "Fallen upon" them just as he had them, in the begining at Pentecost.


I know we say Acts only has tongues in it only when salvation occurs.

Please read it and note all the chapters that speak the language of people coming to faith by hearing and accepting the word with out any mention of tongues. There are far more of these accounts than the accounts that a manifestion of tongues was a witness of the Spirit coming upon a believer.

How did the Apostles know the Samaritans had NOT received the Holy Ghost?

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by Theophilus

I disagree. I believe many here understand that until someone has spoken in tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance, that they have not received the Spirit. However, I don't believe that anyone here with this doctrine believes that someone has nothing until then, just that it's an important part of the new birth that cannot be sidelined as optional.

Okay, so they have something. Just what is it then that they have?

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

Verse 11 is so overlooked in this passage. "The Spirit dividing to everyman severally as HE WILL. (we force it to be only tongues)

FAL, have you noticed that a common scripture that is used is Joel 2 and yet they seemingly ignore all the manifestations that are described in the passage they quote:


"And afterward,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your old men will dream dreams,
your young men will see visions.
Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days.

I will show wonders in the heavens
and on the earth,
blood and fire and billows of smoke."