((((UPC FLASH)))))) Announcing the Next Possible General SUPT. Of the UPC!!!

[ChicagoPastor]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

On this we disagree.

Should the ALJC declare a UPC pastor out of bounds of fellowship if the pastor encourages an ALJC friend of his to join the UPC?

Organizations are not local churches with unscrupulous pastors trying to proselyte.

That parallel doesn't work.

I think a preacher ought to be free to join whatever organization he wants to join.

Why be so territorial and defensive and vindictive?

Agreed, it's not like a local church, but the UPC has to protect it's best intrest. If there's an outside or inside influence encouraging ministers to leave and join another organization, it'll hurt the UPC financially and number wise.
For that matter they have a right to try to block whoever it is.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

The absolute worst thing the UPC could do is put the Tulsa men under question.

If they did that, the indignation generated by such an act would send men running toward Tulsa in droves, and I would be leading the charge.

It would be nice, if in the aftermath of such a grievous self-inflicted wound, we could see cool heads prevail on both sides of the divide.

I don't know if the parallel is adequate but if they do so ... as I view it ...

it could be similar to the decision Union leadership made to secure and not abandon Fort Sumter in South Carolina.

Depending on who you ask you will get different perspectives as to whether the decision to preserve the fort or attack the fort was justified or not.

It sparked the Civil War ... and yet we know it was not the cause.

Some decisions are deemed necessary.

[retsambeW]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

On this we disagree.

Should the ALJC declare a UPC pastor out of bounds of fellowship if the pastor encourages an ALJC friend of his to join the UPC?

Organizations are not local churches with unscrupulous pastors trying to proselyte.

That parallel doesn't work.

I think a preacher ought to be free to join whatever organization he wants to join.

Why be so territorial and defensive and vindictive?

Actually, for once, we disagree.

If a UPC pastor encourages a friend from another group to become UPC, he is simply promoting the UPC. If a UPC preacher that is leaving encourages others to leave with him, I call that division. A lot of folks look at it that way.

Of course, as you noted, and on this we do agree, the final choice belongs with the individual, and they have every right to exercise that choice without interference from others.

[ChicagoPastor]

Coon,
I'm not talking so much about one friend encouraging another to join them.
i'm more against a concerted effort to pull people out. Where the plan is to hurt the organization

Originally Posted by retsambeW

Actually, for once, we disagree.

If a UPC pastor encourages a friend from another group to become UPC, he is simply promoting the UPC. If a UPC preacher that is leaving encourages others to leave with him, I call that division. A lot of folks look at it that way.

Of course, as you noted, and on this we do agree, the final choice belongs with the individual, and they have every right to exercise that choice without interference from others.

So.... Only the UPC has the right to encourage men to forsake their current environment for one that might better meet their needs and support their views?

Come on Webbie... you are not serious... are you?

[Falla39]

Remember Israel. They wanted a (human) king like all the others nations

(peoples). God wanted to be their king, but they would not hear of it. He

gave them the desire of their (hard) hearts but sent leanness to their souls.

Is there a parallel!

Man has a hard time evidently trusting and serving in something they cannot

see with physical eyes.

What if Americans decided we do not need an earthly president with all the

politics, etc. What if they again looked to God. (Looking unto Jesus, The

Author and The Finisher of our faith.

What if God's people once again turned to HIM with ALL of their hearts,

souls, minds and strengths! Where would it start and how would it begin!

O, LORD GOD, Would it be possible that YOU would let (allow,permit) it to

begin in this earthen vessel. If You are the CONTENTS within! If not, why not!

If not me, who.? If not here, where? If not now, when!!!

Blessed are they which have not seen yet have believed.

Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not,
yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory.

Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Blessings,

Falla39

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by retsambeW

Actually, for once, we disagree.

If a UPC pastor encourages a friend from another group to become UPC, he is simply promoting the UPC. If a UPC preacher that is leaving encourages others to leave with him, I call that division. A lot of folks look at it that way.

Of course, as you noted, and on this we do agree, the final choice belongs with the individual, and they have every right to exercise that choice without interference from others.

I agree with you that if someone leaves and makes an attempt to have others leave as well, it IS division. It becomes grey when the individual doing the talking criticizes the UPC or criticizes principals, the organization notwithstanding.

I think Tulsa is the one shot that many on the Booker/Morton/Wilson side of things have to actually encourage UPC ministers to re-consider their affilliation. I don't believe there will be another (global) opportunity.

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by ChicagoPastor

Coon,
I'm not talking so much about one friend encouraging another to join them.
i'm more against a concerted effort to pull people out. Where the plan is to hurt the organization

I don't believe the plan is to hurt the organization, the plan is really nothing more than an organized protest to somehow send the UPC monkey mucks a message.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

I don't know if the parallel is adequate but if they do so ... as I view it ...

it could be similar to the decision Union leadership made to secure and not abandon Fort Sumter in South Carolina.

Depending on who you ask you will get different perspectives as to whether the decision to preserve the fort or attack the fort was justified or not.

It sparked the Civil War ... and yet we know it was not the cause.

Some decisions are deemed necessary.

What is justifiable in a war is not justifiable between brethren who disagree on some issues.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

What is justifiable in a war is not justifiable between brethren who disagree on some issues.

Agreed ... but when trying to preserve one's self, group or belief system .... there can be a domino effect ... for every action there is a reaction.