Saved WithOut The Holy Ghost ?

Scott Hutchinson · #1 12-11-2007, 10:14 PM

I might be posting this in the wrong area and if so please forgive me.
I understand some Pentecostal groups and some here on AFF ,believe one is saved and then filled with The Holy Ghost.Evidently a fair amount of OPs teach this.
Now this is asked in charity, but I do read scriptures that say without the Spirit of Christ you can't be His,or none of His Or I read verses that say it is by One Spirit we are baptized into one body.

Ok what is the difference in receiving the Holy Ghost and being baptized with The Holy Ghost ?Isn't terms like being filled with The Holy Spirit and such synonymous terms for the same experience.
If regeneration is a work of the Holy Spirit how can one be regenerate with the Spirit of Christ ?

Also doesn't receiving the Spirit comes after repentance and not at repentance I understand.Because doesn't ACTS.2:37,38 teach that the Holy Ghost comes after repentance.

So can one be saved and not have the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit ?

I am open-minded and willing to hear other's views on this subject.

Sam · #2 12-11-2007, 10:35 PM

The book that we call Ephesians in our Bible was written by the Apostle Paul while he was in prison in Rome in the AD 60-62 time period. This imprisonment is recorded in Acts 28.

Paul calls the folks there "saints" and "faithful) (Eph 1:1) and refers to "God our Father"(Eph 1:2). In verses 13 and 14 of that first chapter he mentions that they had heard the gospel, had believed, and were sealed unto the day of redemption by the Holy Spirit.

We assume these folks were saved/born again of the Spirit and had the Holy Spirit (Spirit of Christ) dwelling within. In chapter 5 and verse 18 he encourages them to "be filled with the Spirit" or as some paraphrase it, "keep getting filled with the Spirit" or "be ongoingly or continuously filled with the Spirit."

The work of the Spirit begins in us when we are drawn to Jesus.
The Spirit then opens our hearts to Jesus.
When we make that surrender to Jesus He comes into our hearts to dwell as the Holy Spirit and we are:
born of the Spirit,
sealed by the Spirit unto the day of the redemption of the purchased possession,
baptized (placed) by the Holy Spirit into Christ or into the Body of Christ.

This, however, is not the last and final work of the Spirit in our lives.
After our born again or saved experience we are to walk in the Spirit and be filled with the Spirit and some day our mortal body will be transformed/resurrected by the Spirit.

Some of us here believe that the disciples of Jesus were saved and had their names written in Heaven before (Luke 10:20) the Day of Pentecost recorded in Acts chapter 2. Before Jesus ascended He told them to wait in Jerusalem until they received an empowerment of the Spirit which He also referred to as a baptism in the Spirit (Acts 1:4-8). Ten days later they received an experience which says they were "filled" with the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:4). Peter referred to this experience as the Spirit being poured out (Acts 2:17, 32). Later in Acts 4:8 we read that Peter was filled with the Spirit, and still later he was among a group of people who were filled with the Spirit (Acts 4:31).

So, there are experiences subsequent to being born of the Spirit when it speaks of the Spirit being poured out; the Spirit coming upon; receiving (making room for) the Spirit; being immersed/baptized/saturated in the Spirit; and being filled with the Spirit.

Scott Hutchinson · #3 12-12-2007, 05:06 PM

Does anybody else have an opinion ?

freeatlast · #4 12-12-2007, 05:23 PM

I concur with much of Sam's Writings.

At hearing in faith the word of God we are graciously given God's spirit in our lives.

The filling or the falling upon or in some scriptures it refers to he came upon them.

This is a manifestion of the spirit which happens not just once but there can be many "fillings" in our lives.

The scripture is true and if you have not the spirit of Christ you are not his.

But many mistakenly take that to mean if the Spirit has never manifested in the opertion of a gift in you r life you "ain't got squat"

Scott Hutchinson · #5 12-12-2007, 05:39 PM

I do agree that you have an experience prior to HG baptism but personally I don't see a difference between receiving the HG and being baptized with the HG.
I see baptism in Jesus name as a expression of the faith one places in Christ at repentance,I understand one receives Spirit baptism due to their faith in Christ.
I feel it is God's will for all who are penetant to place their in Christ and His atoning blood and be buried with Him in His name,and to be Spirit filled and then to live a life of progressive sanctification and personal holiness awaiting a final resurrection.
I'm just being honest here but I am listening to others's side of the issue.

Dedicated Mind · #6 12-12-2007, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

The work of the Spirit begins in us when we are drawn to Jesus.
The Spirit then opens our hearts to Jesus.
When we make that surrender to Jesus He comes into our hearts to dwell as the Holy Spirit and we are:
born of the Spirit,
sealed by the Spirit unto the day of the redemption of the purchased possession,
baptized (placed) by the Holy Spirit into Christ or into the Body of Christ.

Sam, do you believe the HS indwells at repentance without speaking in tongues (baptism of HS)?

drummerboy_dave · #7 12-12-2007, 05:58 PM

I just don't think it's wise or biblical for someone to say that you are "saved" even though you still haven't recieved the Holy Ghost. It's like saying you can be baptized, but you don't have to get wet.

Darcie · #8 12-12-2007, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

I do agree that you have an experience prior to HG baptism but personally I don't see a difference between receiving the HG and being baptized with the HG.
I see baptism in Jesus name as a expression of the faith one places in Christ at repentance,I understand one receives Spirit baptism due to their faith in Christ.
I feel it is God's will for all who are penetant to place their in Christ and His atoning blood and be buried with Him in His name,and to be Spirit filled and then to live a life of progressive sanctification and personal holiness awaiting a final resurrection.
I'm just being honest here but I am listening to others's side of the issue.

Here's my question to you... Is the Holy Ghost an object, or a being?

If you think think baptism of the Holy Ghost and receiving the Holy Ghost is the same you make the Holy Ghost an object. And we all know that the Holy Ghost is God, a being. So if I've repented and have even gotten baptised, do I not have God in me. I mean, are we oneness, or are we oneness?

TRFrance · #9 12-12-2007, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freeatlast

I concur with much of Sam's Writings.

At hearing in faith the word of God we are graciously given God's spirit in our lives.

The filling or the falling upon or in some scriptures it refers to he came upon them.

This is a manifestion of the spirit which happens not just once but there can be many "fillings" in our lives.

The scripture is true and if you have not the spirit of Christ you are not his.

But many mistakenly take that to mean if the Spirit has never manifested in the operation of a gift in you r life you "ain't got squat"

How do you explain then, the believers in Acts 8... who received the gospel (v. 5-6) , which was delivered with signs following (v. 7), and they had great joy (v.8) , and also even got baptized (v.12), but they did not receive the Holy Ghost till the apostles came later on, and prayed for them to receive it?

According to your belief, the Holy Ghost would have came upon them when they heard and received the word of God in faith.

But the scripture plainly says:

14Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

So keeping in mind the above passage, upon what scriptural basis do you say:
" At hearing in faith the word of God we are graciously given God's spirit in our lives." ?

.

TRFrance · #10 12-12-2007, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darcie

Here's my question to you... Is the Holy Ghost an object, or a being?

If you think think baptism of the Holy Ghost and receiving the Holy Ghost is the same you make the Holy Ghost an object. And we all know that the Holy Ghost is God, a being. So if I've repented and have even gotten baptised, do I not have God in me. I mean, are we oneness, or are we oneness?

What scriptures do you used to teach that there's distinction between receiving the Holy Ghost, and being baptized in the Holy Ghost?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darcie

If you think think baptism of the Holy Ghost and receiving the Holy Ghost is the same you make the Holy Ghost an object. And we all know that the Holy Ghost is God, a being. So if I've repented and have even gotten baptised, do I not have God in me.

My previous post to free at last deals with that very issue.
We see a clear example of a whole bunch of new believers who had repented and got baptized, but still didn't have the Holy Ghost.

I guess it would be nice to think that anyone who repents, receives the Holy Ghost just by their repentance and/or being baptized.... but there's no scriptural basis for us to believe or teach that .
.