Scriptually Where Did Pastoral Authority Come From?

[commonsense]

Originally Posted by Lost and Found

The shepherds of the Middle East do not use dogs. They don't drive the sheep from the back of the flock. Instead a shepherd in that area leads their flock by walking in front of them while speaking or singing to them. Remember, Jesus said that His sheep know His voice? A shepherd (pastor) is to speak the words (bread of Life - the Word of God) that the flock needs to grow by. And, as Paul said: "Follow me as I follow Christ!" So a true Christian leader is one who follows Christ. Such a leader is the only type that should ever be followed. A 'leader' who makes his own way or who drives from the rear is not to be followed.

The position of a true leader is always found at the feet of those they are called to serve. This does not mean that pastors are called to be slaves to all men, but that all that they do, like a servant, is to be filtered through serving the best interests of another, and NOT themselves. This is the way to see if a pastor is following Christ; see if they are more interested in what they can do for the other saint's callings, or if they are more interested in seeing what the other saints can do for their calling. A servant is to serve, and not to be served.

How did Jesus say you'd know His TRUE disciples...? By their Love! Love, not for themselves, but for others. This is no different for a pastor or any of the others in the five-fold ministry.

Well stated.

About 30 yrs ago in another city another state a young saint was concerned with the pastoral influence in his congregation. He did a lengthy study and it became a booklet. The primary topic, the role of a shepherd.

He shared his efforts with friends/saints in the church. Unfortunately this is not a fairy tale with a happy ending. The church suffered a large split and families left. The writer of this paper moved away and has not gone to church in many years. It even seemed to efffect the district. The sentiments in the paper were for the most part true ( I read a copy15 yrs later when we lived in this city.) So much of what we do is not the content but the delivery, approach, attitude and spirit. This young man's purpose was not to cause a split, he sincerely hoped to enlighten the pastor.

[anapko]

Originally Posted by Berkeley

All I will say is


MUZZLE NOT THE OX!!!

Yes the ox are not to be muzzled...it doesn't say pastors! Why is it everyone thinks a Scripture like this refers to pastors only? Paul's epistle said that God placed in the church first Apostles, then prophets and after helps! Where does the pastor fit in? While I do love and respect my pastor, I believe we have made demi-gods of pastors in the Pentecostal world!

[Scott Hutchinson]

Originally Posted by commonsense

Well stated.

About 30 yrs ago in another city another state a young saint was concerned with the pastoral influence in his congregation. He did a lengthy study and it became a booklet. The primary topic, the role of a shepherd.

He shared his efforts with friends/saints in the church. Unfortunately this is not a fairy tale with a happy ending. The church suffered a large split and families left. The writer of this paper moved away and has not gone to church in many years. It even seemed to efffect the district. The sentiments in the paper were for the most part true ( I read a copy15 yrs later when we lived in this city.) So much of what we do is not the content but the delivery, approach, attitude and spirit. This young man's purpose was not to cause a split, he sincerely hoped to enlighten the pastor.

This young man should have shared his findings with the pastor, and not the congregation I would think.

[Carpenter]

It is tradition in the UPC (anyway), for preachers to say, "You can't be saved without a pastor."

While this is true in an indirect sense, just because I have someone in my life as a pastor does not mean the opposite will also not be true. If I insist on calling a man my pastor as they would suggest, then it coulud be that will most certainly be lost if things are not as they should be.

There is a gross underbelly in some cases that really if you don't know about it, then it doesn't matter if it exists. When the underbelly is exposed, God help those innocent people left hanging in the balance.

Of course, I am not niave enough to believe the oposite is not true, I have seen folks do their best to undermine the efforts of a pastor.

Once again though, this topic is waaaaay to broad to discuss in the abstract. There are many good men, those who believe good men are good men but who could be questionable in some of their practices, those who have never had a negative experience, and those who are totally jaded because of a slight misunderstanding, and a million other circumstances.

Maybe pastoring should be called a practice like doctors, lawyers, and accountants.

"My pastoring practice" Nice...I kinda like that.

[Felicity]

In regard to the thread topic question .......

Don't you think that "rule well the house of God" denotes authority? Whether it's an elder or the position of leadership that we call "pastor" .... someone has to lead and take the oversight.

I'm not for dictatorial type leadership. We have certainly never pastored that way and in fact the mindset of "I'm in authority here so obey me or else" has never been the way we think or act when it comes to leadership.

I think that men who are all the time feeling the need to establish themselves as the "authority" and are preoccupied with it have insecurity issues.

A secure leader isn't preoccupied with or feels the need to be overseeing and dictating all the details of people's lives.

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Felicity

I think that men who are all the time feeling the need to establish themselves as the "authority" and are preoccupied with it have insecurity issues.

A secure leader isn't preoccupied with or feels the need to be overseeing and dictating all the details of people's lives.

So very true! A leader with an identity crisis is a leader that suffers an identify IN Christ.

If a man cannot see himself as Jesus sees him, then his relationship with other men will also be blurred. Jesus said every command of God begins with loving God with our ALL…and with loving our neighbor as OURSELF. When a man gives God ALL his love, then the only love he can give to his neighbor is that which God gives back to him. This is why it is impossible for those who have a right relationship with God not to likewise love their brethren in a Christ like way. Also, this love is the same love that all believers are to have for their own self. This is not an emotional love based on feelings. Such love is more prideful or arrogant than godly. The type love Jesus speaks of is a commitment that’s derived from a knowing confidence in one’s position IN Christ. When one is confident in whom they are in Christ, then they can love another with the same love that Jesus has for them.

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

This young man should have shared his findings with the pastor, and not the congregation I would think.

And what would you expect that to have done?