REVEREND JOHN SUBER - Leaving Ken Phillip's PROMISELAND??????

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

The home I'm talking about is the mothership UPC that you are saying those that leave never come back to.

The UPC is not my home nor my mohership, though I am licensed. I don't think in those terms at all.

I'm talking about truth, and the church, not an organization.

[Joseph Miller]

I will repeat again, The people of God have always looked different than the rest of the World around them. If we look like them then we are no different than them.

I am not attacking anyone. I am not judging anyone, but I must stand on the Word of God.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

I haven't posted much on this thread, if at all. I don't recall.

I haven't really seen what looked like slanderous criticism against Brother Suber.

Here is the deal--he is a very public figure. What he does is generally in the spotlight.

It is a fact that he has a history of not staying anywhere too long. Does that make him bad?

No, it just means he doesn't usually stay too long in one place.

And as for his wife altering her appearance, who really expected her to remain as she was when he decided to leave the UPC and join a group that doesn't teach outward separation?

After all, gentle readers, this isn't the first time we've seen this type of scenario play out. The moves were choreographed a long time ago, and any of us who have been around a while have seen it over and over again.

Here is how it goes, usually:

1.Brother ________gets a known ministry in the UPC, and makes a big enough splash that the Ex-ers begin to take note and court Brother __________.

2.Brother _________gets told how much bigger the body of Christ is than those narrow minded Apostolics have led him to believe it is. They ask him to preach some meetings, give him good offerings, tell him how his ministry is too big to be confined to that little legalistic, pharasaical box he is playing in. Major ego stroking is a part of the process.

3.Brother __________starts finding fault with the brethren who built the platform he stands on and gave him the opportunity to have a ministry. He notices how judgmental they are toward his new friends out yonder in Libertyville, while the friends all mouth platitudes about how much they appreciate their heritage, and the good things they received while they were still in bondage, etc. The contrast looks very stark.

4.Brother _________finally achieves exit velocity. He assures all his friends that he hasn't changed his mind about anything he believes, that he just feels as if this is what God wants him to do. "My wife and I still believe in holiness, yes sir! We just feel that God has led us to minister on a broader stage...whatsamatter, don't you trust us???!!!!"

5.All is well for a while...then suddenly, Sister________starts feeling frumpy and old-fashioned among the bejeweled, painted, coiffed, and "stylish" ladies she is now in fellowship with. They all, with that precious manner women know very well how to put on, reassure her that they accept her just as she is..."You look sweet, dear, with that lovely long hair and those dresses down past your knees...you remind me of my sweet, godly old grandmother who used to rock me on her lap and sing hymns to me...you are just lovely."

6.Sister ________starts "feeling" in her spirit that the Lord is dealing with her about the standards...she reads Romans and Galatians over again and has an epiphany...she has been duped into bondage!"

7.She takes her revelation to dear Brother _________, who has amazingly been feeling the same things.

8.Sister __________goes to the beauty shop post haste, followed by a visit to the mall where bifurcated garments fill her shopping cart. Good deals and big sales are divine confirmation...Glory!

9.Brother __________assures his friends that while they may see some things differently regarding "non-salvational issues," he will NEVER change his stance on the New Birth. No Sir, never.

10.Trinitarians start "ministering in the spirit" to him and Sister _____, and are they ever on target! Man, he can't remember EVER having anyone in the UPC minister in the gifts with such accuracy and detail...and with such a spirit of love!!!

11.Brother_________starts wondering, "Surely these people couldn't operate in the spirit like this if they were lost, like I have alkways believed they were, not having been baptized in Jesus Name....hmmmm."

12.Brother________opens up to his new buddies about his thoughts, and gets major affirmation. "Brother, I will never forget when God showed me how much bigger His Body was than I always thought...man, it was like getting saved all over again!"

13.Brother_________feels like he has been set free. His ministry is going to really take off now. The chains of legalism have finally been broken. He is "free yes free indeed."

From here, the story varies, but in most cases, it gets sadder and sadder.

Look around at the kids of most of these cases, and you find a lot of them rejecting Pentecost of any kind totally and completely. Not always, but often.

So this is a grievous thing. I know I will make a lot of you spitting mad with this post, but I have seen this enough up close and personal to hate seeing JS start down this road of compromise.

There.

Now fire away.

I think the fault with your theory here is that JS was at the top of the game in UPC ministry.

I think it is naive to think he was wowed by preaching at an exUPC church or two. JS was preaching the UPC's largest meetings and churches. Preaching at Kenneth Phillips church, which is not as big as those meetings, would not make his eyes glaze over.

This is what makes JS an enigma. He left while on top and very much in demand. As I have said in the past I am not sure how much demand there will be outside of old time Oneness Pentecost for a typical screamer but time will tell.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

The UPC is not my home nor my mohership, though I am licensed. I don't think in those terms at all.

I'm talking about truth, and the church, not an organization.

After I wrote that last post, I thought you might say something like this, but your longer post was written using the UPC as the thing that someone came out of....Anyways some folks do go back to the UPC after leaving.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Joseph Miller

I will repeat again, The people of God have always looked different than the rest of the World around them. If we look like them then we are no different than them.

I am not attacking anyone. I am not judging anyone, but I must stand on the Word of God.

Always?

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

After I wrote that last post, I thought you might say something like this, but your longer post was written using the UPC as the thing that someone came out of....Anyways some folks do go back to the UPC after leaving.

Because of the context I used the UPC.

I don't have the UPC confused with the Body of Christ, however, like I think some may. I am a member, and I appreciate the good the org has done, but I don't fellowship based on a card. I fellowship based on the message preached, life lived, and ethics practiced.

[berkeley]

Originally Posted by Joseph Miller

I will repeat again, The people of God have always looked different than the rest of the World around them. If we look like them then we are no different than them.

I am not attacking anyone. I am not judging anyone, but I must stand on the Word of God.

No they did not!!

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Berkeley

No they did not!!

When society began to grow more and more immodest, they did.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Because of the context I used the UPC.

I don't have the UPC confused with the Body of Christ, however, like I think some may. I am a member, and I appreciate the good the org has done, but I don't fellowship based on a card. I fellowship based on the message preached, life lived, and ethics practiced.

How many have you known personally who have left the apostolic doctrine and went on to becoming like TF or GB?

[berkeley]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

When society began to grow more and more immodest, they did.

No comment to that.

I passed through Salina on the 18th. I was at the 24-7 store, near Russell's Restaurant.

While there, I prayed for you and your family, and your church.