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  #11  
Old 12-26-2007, 10:27 AM
Rhoni Rhoni is offline
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Originally Posted by OneAccord View Post
Mat 28:19 "Go therefore[fn3] and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Mat 28:20 "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.

The commission to "make disciples" is found in the Words of Jesus in Matthew 28:19-20. In order for the Great Commission to be fulfilled, all elements of Jesus' Words need to be followed. The Commission begins with the word "GO". It seems the Pentecostal Church is losing its evangelistic fevor. We seem to be content with "evangelizing" within the four walls of the church building. The emphasis seems to be on "discipling" the disciples, with little or no effort in reaching the unchurched with the Gospel. The message seems to be..."Here's the church...come and get it". But thats not what Jesus said for us to do...and that isn't what He did. We are to "GO"... . He went to the sinner. He went to the lost. He actively engaged in the ministry of evangelism. And, if we are to follow in His steps, we are to "Go...into all the world and preach the Gospel..."

But evangelism doesn't stop there. Once we "get" them, we are to teach them. We are to teach new converst ALL that Jesus commanded. Which includes, but certainly is not limited to water baptism. ALL things that He commands. And when we teach the Gospel in its fulness...it will be a living Gospel, vibrant, full of God's Presence.
We know that we need to disciple people, but just like in counseling you must first develope a relationship before they will hear anything you have to say.

So, again, my question is; How do we disciple people?

Blessings, Rhoni
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  #12  
Old 12-26-2007, 10:38 AM
Rhoni Rhoni is offline
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Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
I really feel you Rhoni. I’ve seen the awesome amount of neglect within the churches also. We live in an entirely different church culture today than they lived in decades ago. Today it seems most churches are trying to “grow” into mega-churches or “Worship Centers”. They provide “programs” but no real discipleship. The church has adopted a “business model” instead of holding fast to the model of the church found in Scripture.

Things are no longer personal. Everything is program driven. Used to people had a personal ministry to the lost and to the body. But today the church drafts and facilitates programs. Fewer people feel a personal call to serving or evangelizing….they leave these things to those involved with the outreach or ministry programs. And if the programs don’t run well or if they don’t exist….nobody steps up to the plate. And pastors pray that God will put a “burden” on someone to work in a field of ministry.

Sadly, all of this is unbiblical.

The original local church was a smaller and more organic body. They met in homes instead of sanctuaries and served one another. Here’s a list of the “one another” s found in Scripture:

• Be at peace with each other. Mark 9:50
• Love one another. John 13:34
• Be devoted to one another. Romans 12:10
• Honor one another above yourselves. Romans 12:10
• Stop passing judgment on one another. Romans 14:13
• Accept one another. Romans 15:7
• Instruct one another. Romans 15:14
• Greet one another. Romans 16:16
• Serve one another in love. Galatians 5:13
• Carry each other’s burdens. Galatians 6:2
• Be patient, bearing with one another in love. Ephesians 4:2
• Be kind and compassionate to one another. Ephesians 4:32
• Forgive each other. Ephesians 4:32
• Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Ephesians 5:19
• Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. Ephesians 5:21
• In humility consider others better than yourselves. Philippians 2:3
• Teach and admonish one another with all wisdom. Colossians 3:16
• Encourage each other.1 Thessalonians 5:11
• Spur one another on toward love and good deeds. Hebrews 10:24
• Do not slander one another. James 4:11
• Don’t grumble against each other. James 5:9
• Confess your sins to one another. James 5:16
• Pray for each other. James 5:16
• Clothe yourselves with humility toward one another. 1 Peter 5:5

Our churches get too big and lumbering to do this. It’s not uncommon for people to not even know the folks sitting across the aisle from them.

Spiritual discipleship takes time and fellowship. It’s like Christian mentoring; mentoring a person into fullness in Christ. This cannot be achieved in programs, classes, spiritual development courses, etc. It is something that is developed in the midst of daily or semi-daily one on one interaction and communication. Openness must exist without judgmentalism, fear, or condemnation. A person must feel free to be human and open up so that they can be instructed in the ways of Jesus.

Sadly we’ve lost the “family” in the “family of God” and we have embraced the business model of this world’s corporate task masters. Tomorrow will bring another program, another class, another seminar, another development course. But more and more people will feel more and more hollow and alone, un-mentored, un-discipled, un-used, and un-fulfilled. They will just attend their church in a “spiritual drift” thinking that this is as good as it can get and must be better than the world. Some will leave the church and return to the friends and closeness they shared with those in the world. Some will attend church but come out to these forums to open up and share their pain, thoughts, feelings, and opinions. Why? Well, because the local really church doesn’t care for them as individuals. This is the only place their feelings and thoughts are heard. They have a ministry or a message in their souls and want to be heard but there’s no room for their ministry in the local church where there is only one pulpit and primarily one preacher. They live in a spiritual vacuum starving for the close and open Christian fellowship they find here.

The remedy is the house church. Many institutional churches are realizing this and forming cell groups and home fellowship groups. Praise the Lord for these. However, most of the institutional churches are trying to find more programs, gimmicks, etc.

In a way the internet is an online house church. We come here in the comfort of our own homes. The anonymity allows us the openness that should prevail in the church at large but doesn’t. We study Scripture, share thoughts and experiences, reflect on what the Scriptures mean to us, we have elders, teachers, preachers, brothers, and sisters who help us understand or to simply expose us to another viewpoint or possibility (sometimes the right one). And though many don’t accept the teaching immediately…we are all shaped by what we read here. Though I may not embrace another’s viewpoint entirely, their viewpoint shapes my viewpoint and makes it more developed and mature. Sometimes my viewpoint is revealed as being faulty or flawed and I must embrace what another has revealed.

It’s sad, but in spite of our differences (which are many) we tolerate each other here far more than we would in the modern church setting. In a sense our “internet fellowship” is more Christian than our “pretending” and “Amening” in our churches.

We need to grow closer in our local churches. We need to spiritually mentor and disciple one another. We need to provide more opportunities for ministry, preaching, and teaching among the men of the body. I believe this is best done in the house church format.

If you pastor a local church and wonder how to achieve this without entirely embracing the house church model…investigate forming cell groups or home fellowship groups. It will be in these regular smaller meetings that true discipleship and relationship building can take place. I’m convinced your church will grow closer as a result of growing…smaller.
Aquila,

Wow...a lot of thought went into your post. I don't like the idea of "house church' but I think having your house open for mentoring neighborhood people and mentoring new visitors who come to your church is definitely the way to go....BUILD RELATIONSHIP.

The thing that bothers me is that most people who visit, the drive is to get them into a Bible Study... this isn't the time. I know my Mom always had her Bible and the Search for Truth materials handy if the person she was talking to had questions and then it would naturally lead into the Bible study, but to put them into a Bible study before a relationship is established with the person is sometimes a death sentence to conversion or discipling.

Meeting people's needs; to talk/counsel, to feed, or cloth them will show the care and empathy you need to have before you can even work on the salvational issue. It is like trying to counsel someone while they are sitting there hungry with no groceries and wondering where the next meal is coming from. The basic needs of food, clothing, and shelter have to be addressed before you get to the counseling or the salvational issue. This is why the churches with community outreach for the homeless are so successful.

Face it, many lower socio-economical folks would not fit in many of our churches. They would be ignored, or given a place of lower status than those who are VIP's and dress like YUPPIES.

Just some of my thoughts,
Rhoni
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  #13  
Old 12-26-2007, 11:05 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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I look at it like this...the biblical Apostolic church didn't have church buildings or all these programs for nearly 250 to 300 years...and they turned Rome upside down. They met in homes, fellowshipped, taught, and established more churches in homes. Everyone blessed with a gift was used to launch the church into the lives of the entire community...even in some cases at the high cost of persecution.

Hmmmm...what's weighing us down?
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  #14  
Old 12-26-2007, 11:05 AM
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nathan_slatter nathan_slatter is offline
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Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
Thank you Nathan. We've embraced a churchianity that doens't require personal investment in the lives of our brothers or sisters. Church is just another "appointment" on our to do lists. Church is no longer the family it was designed to be. We use terms such as "brother", "sister", and entreat elders as "fathers" for a reason. But we've forgotten that reason. Today church has become more of a business selling self help and affirmation.

We need to get back to our home based roots and be a family again.
I agree.
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  #15  
Old 12-26-2007, 11:51 AM
Rhoni Rhoni is offline
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Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
I look at it like this...the biblical Apostolic church didn't have church buildings or all these programs for nearly 250 to 300 years...and they turned Rome upside down. They met in homes, fellowshipped, taught, and established more churches in homes. Everyone blessed with a gift was used to launch the church into the lives of the entire community...even in some cases at the high cost of persecution.

Hmmmm...what's weighing us down?
Aquila,

The truth is many of us 'churched' people are getting fed up with the politics and always a financial push for money that home churches sound like a logical choice. The only trouble is that people are so private now and don't want to share their lives with neighbors, much less a group of neighbors...*sigh* maybe it is a viable answer. I'll have to give it some thought.

The world was much smaller back in Bible days so even though it worked back then...doesn't mean it will work today. Then you have some nuts out there spreading cultish lifestyles when there is no accountability or person for them to answer to.

I seem to be a more 'organized' individual but I want to have an open door for hurting people and neighbors. But I'd like to lead them to a good church for more teaching and social activities which adds support for people who need it.

Blessings, Rhoni
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  #16  
Old 12-26-2007, 12:19 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Truth be told, house churching is a growing phenomena world wide, including the United States. The truth is more and more Christians truly want to share their lives with neighbors…the church and the never ending religious functions and financial demands are getting in the way….

http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?P...naUpdateID=241

Right now we may be seeing the beginning of a spiritual revolution that embraces a more home based church life. People are tired of the steepled religion of the church house where everyoen wears their Sunday best. They want to know the Jesus in blue jeans...they want to learn how to live the Christian life in their livingrooms with fellowship out by the grill in the backyard. An applied Christianity for "real life" not the polished and controlled environment of the Sanctuary.
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  #17  
Old 12-26-2007, 12:19 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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In short...the people have rejected our "religiousity".
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  #18  
Old 12-26-2007, 12:36 PM
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RevDWW RevDWW is offline
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Originally Posted by Ronzo View Post
You mean Obeying Acts 2:38, Deut 22:5, and 1 Cor 11, isn't enough?

You mean that's not discipleship?
Acts 2:38 is not the whole of discipleship, but it's a very good start. Sorta like having kids, you got to birth'm before you can raise'm.

By the way have you really ever had anyone tell you that the list you wrote was "discipleship"?
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  #19  
Old 12-26-2007, 12:41 PM
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commonsense commonsense is offline
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Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
In short...the people have rejected our "religiousity".

I'm in agreement. All of these posts convey one of the"issues" of the church today. Maybe home churches are a better method of outreach. I really think there are a lot of people who need kindness extended and acceptance rather than condemnation.
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  #20  
Old 12-26-2007, 12:42 PM
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Felicity Felicity is offline
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Bro Aquila,

I assume you are brother by your username.

You have amazing insight!!! I have been studying the business/mega church model for some time. I think you have nailed it exactly. I find it interesting that the largest church in the world, pioneered and still uses the home church concept. David/Paul Yonggi Cho's in Seoul South Korea.

I was truly blessed by your post. BL
The largest house church network in the world is most likely found in China!
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