Mizpeh, I respectfully disagree with your assessment of both Raven and Pelathias.
I suspect that both would be quite interested in finding some historical record that supports any form of Oness Doctrine.
Pelathias has not suggested that it could never have happened, just that the work in question that makes that argument fails the test of scrutany.
Likewise Raven has not suggested only that the record to date, does not support the idea, and the work mentioned by several here is at best problematic.
Ferd
Once again, you are able to "catch" the underlying spirit of a discussion. Again you grow taller in my estimation.[for whatever that may be worth]
I think you're a fine fellow no matter what anybody or you MIL may say!!!
Raven
Ferd
Once again, you are able to "catch" the underlying spirit of a discussion. Again you grow taller in my estimation.[for whatever that may be worth]
I think you're a fine fellow no matter what anybody or you MIL may say!!!
Raven
I certainly do appreicate you.
my parinoid inner self (is that my ID?)
wants to know if you know my mother in law.....AND IF SO WHAT HAVE YOU TOLD HER?????
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
I have to side with the UPCI on this one. I like how they express it on their website:
The Importance of Water Baptism
Christian water baptism is an ordinance instituted by Jesus Christ. If it is not important in the plan of God, why did Jesus command it in Matthew 28:19? And why did Peter follow up by saying, "Be baptized every one of you," and by commanding the Gentiles to be baptized (Acts 2:38; 10:48)? We must remember two points about the importance of water baptism. First, whatever Christ definitely established and ordained cannot be unimportant, whether we understand its significance or not. Second, Christ and the apostles showed the importance of this ordinance by observing it. Jesus walked many miles to be baptized, though He was without sin, saying, "For thus it becometh us to fulfill all righteousness" (See Matthew 3:13-16.)
It is true that water itself does not contain any saving virtue, but God has chosen to include it in His plan of salvation. Peter explained, "Baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (I Peter 3:21). According to Luke 7:30, "the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized."
While water doesn't contain any saving virtue...failure or refusal to be baptized underscores a complete misunderstanding of Scripture and/or outright rebellion against something Christ himself commanded. Both will land one in Hell.
If we allow anyone to compromise the necessity of baptism what's next?
Many Trinitarian denominations teach that baptism is a necessity:
Church of Christ
Orthodox
Catholic
...and many many others. I don't see them compromising. Why are we?
Baptism is a command to be obeyed. I sincerely believe that those who teach otherwise are in grave error though they may be good people.
Faith without works is dead. Those who believe that baptism isn't a necessity (a command taught in Scripture) may need spiritual CPR.
WOW!!! I WANT ONE!!!! TELL ME WHERE YOU FOUND IT!!!
__________________ "all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
I have to side with the UPCI on this one. I like how they express it on their website:
The Importance of Water Baptism
Christian water baptism is an ordinance instituted by Jesus Christ. If it is not important in the plan of God, why did Jesus command it in Matthew 28:19? And why did Peter follow up by saying, "Be baptized every one of you," and by commanding the Gentiles to be baptized (Acts 2:38; 10:48)? We must remember two points about the importance of water baptism. First, whatever Christ definitely established and ordained cannot be unimportant, whether we understand its significance or not. Second, Christ and the apostles showed the importance of this ordinance by observing it. Jesus walked many miles to be baptized, though He was without sin, saying, "For thus it becometh us to fulfill all righteousness" (See Matthew 3:13-16.)
It is true that water itself does not contain any saving virtue, but God has chosen to include it in His plan of salvation. Peter explained, "Baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (I Peter 3:21). According to Luke 7:30, "the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized."
While water doesn't contain any saving virtue...failure or refusal to be baptized underscores a complete misunderstanding of Scripture and/or outright rebellion against something Christ himself commanded. Both will land one in Hell.
If we allow anyone to compromise the necessity of baptism what's next?
Many Trinitarian denominations teach that baptism is a necessity:
Church of Christ
Orthodox
Catholic
...and many many others. I don't see them compromising. Why are we?
Baptism is a command to be obeyed. I sincerely believe that those who teach otherwise are in grave error though they may be good people.
Faith without works is dead. Those who believe that baptism isn't a necessity (a command taught in Scripture) may need spiritual CPR.
A VERY good post.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
wants to know if you know my mother in law.....AND IF SO WHAT HAVE YOU TOLD HER?????
Ferd
I remember you saying somewhere that a son-in-law was the most miserable creature on the face of the earth. [or some such statement ] I would tell your MIL [ if I knew her ] that her daughter is very blessed to have you as her protector. [Her Petulant Chevalier ] [That almost sounds like a car! ]
I'm beginning to wonder if this is "arm chair" soul winning. Argue that obeying the gospel of Jesus Christ isn't a necessity and then suddenly hundreds of millions of Christians can be classified as being saved! All in a day's work.
C'mon brethren...don't compromise a clear command of Scripture for expediency. Jesus commanded it. If we don't have to obey him regarding baptism...we don't have to obey him regarding anything.
Question baptism today...and question strict hetersexual morality tomorrow. It unravels the entire message if we deny just a portion of it.
It doesn't matter what Augustine or anyone else has written...Jesus trumps them all.
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