Water Baptism.....Just What Is It For?

[Brother Price]

Baptism is as follows.

And baptism, which is a figure [of their deliverance], does now also save you [from inward questionings and fears], not by the removing of outward body filth [bathing], but by [providing you with] the answer of a good and clear conscience (inward cleanness and peace) before God [because you are demonstrating what you believe to be yours] through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. {1 Peter 3:21}

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

Is Jesus the savior or is baptism the savior?

Is Jesus the savior or faith the saviour or repentance the saviour what a stupid question. Jesus is the Word which includes all the above.

[Brother Price]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Is Jesus the savior or faith the saviour or repentance the saviour what a stupid question. Jesus is the Word which includes all the above.

Brother, if Jesus is the Savior, then He is sufficient. He does not need man's work to help save.

[Apprehended]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Is Jesus the savior or faith the saviour or repentance the saviour what a stupid question. Jesus is the Word which includes all the above.

I would not call it stupid. It may be silly but it addresses a STUPID assumption that has been adopted in the theology of Apostolics. The point that you seem to have missed is the focus that we place on baptism apart from making Jesus Christ the LORD of our lives.

Persoally, I am sick of the "baptised" folk that fill the pew but have NOT enthroned Jesus Christ as the Lord of their lives.

Originally Posted by Apprehended

I would not call it stupid. It may be silly but it addresses a STUPID assumption that has been adopted in the theology of Apostolics. The point that you seem to have missed is the focus that we place on baptism apart from making Jesus Christ the LORD of our lives.

Persoally, I am sick of the "baptised" folk that fill the pew but have NOT enthroned Jesus Christ as the Lord of their lives.

Wow, that is a bold implication, App. You are implying that everyone who is baptized because they are already saved is sitting on the pew with Jesus as Lord of their lives while those who are just as repented as your group but were baptized for the remission of their sins are sitting there with something or someone else as Lord of their lives.

Can you back up your implication with fact or is this just more of the rhetoric we have become accustomed to?

[Brother Price]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

Persoally, I am sick of the "baptised" folk that fill the pew but have NOT enthroned Jesus Christ as the Lord of their lives.

And therein lies the problem with so many. We want Him as Savior, but not as Lord. We want forgiveness but not sanctification. When one is saved by grace, one MUST realize that Christ is Lord and He alone can save.

[Apprehended]

Originally Posted by philjones

Wow, that is a bold implication, App. You are implying that everyone who is baptized because they are already saved is sitting on the pew with Jesus as Lord of their lives while those who are just as repented as your group but were baptized for the remission of their sins are sitting there with something or someone else as Lord of their lives.

Can you back up your implication with fact or is this just more of the rhetoric we have become accustomed to?

Of course, it is more rhetorical than fact. However, the point being that it is not baptism that saves. If it was baptism that saves us then every baptized hipocrite sitting on our pews are saved. The focus as been undually overemphasized on baptism apart from "denying self...taking up the cross and follow me."

But, your correction stands. Sorry that I was misunderstood.

[Apprehended]

Originally Posted by Brother Price

And therein lies the problem with so many. We want Him as Savior, but not as Lord. We want forgiveness but not sanctification. When one is saved by grace, one MUST realize that Christ is Lord and He alone can save.

Good statement.

I think that you have a grasp of what I was getting at.

Originally Posted by Apprehended

Of course, it is more rhetorical than fact. However, the point being that it is not baptism that saves. If it was baptism that saves us then every baptized hipocrite sitting on our pews are saved. The focus as been undually overemphasized on baptism apart from "denying self...taking up the cross and follow me."

But, your correction stands. Sorry that I was misunderstood.

App,

Quite honestly, I think we have put too much emphasis on the finite characteristics of initial salvation, to the point the beginning has become the end.

1 step, 2 step, 3 step, more step... the fact is that faith that brings salvation is only the beginning.. the new birth following the death of the old man... and we must then begin the perpetual process of maturing and growing, as did Jesus, in Grace and Knowledge! Too much focus on the finite will result in an inability to focus on the infinites of God almighty!

I am thankful for my finite initial salvation experience... the new birth... I am more thankful for my infinite, eternal, day to day, ongoing relationship with Jesus Christ, my Lord AND my Savior, My Father and my Friend! Thanks be unto God who "GIVETH", continuing form of the verb, the victory... !

[Apprehended]

Originally Posted by philjones

App,

Quite honestly, I think we have put too much emphasis on the finite characteristics of initial salvation, to the point the beginning has become the end.

1 step, 2 step, 3 step, more step... the fact is that faith that brings salvation is only the beginning.. the new birth following the death of the old man... and we must then begin the perpetual process of maturing and growing, as did Jesus, in Grace and Knowledge! Too much focus on the finite will result in an inability to focus on the infinites of God almighty!

I am thankful for my finite initial salvation experience... the new birth... I am more thankful for my infinite, eternal, day to day, ongoing relationship with Jesus Christ, my Lord AND my Savior, My Father and my Friend! Thanks be unto God who "GIVETH", continuing form of the verb, the victory... !

Well stated, bro Phil...

You and I are on the same page here.

I've said it many times before in light of the narrow UNDUE focus on Acts 2:38 and the great impulse to give everyone the Holy Ghost and get them baptized, we have neglected the MOST important unseen ritual of all...that is MAKING Jesus LORD in our lives. Acts 2:38 is neither the beginning nor is it the end or the finishing of our salvation. What would be the beginning and the ending? No, I asked the wrong question. It should read, 'WHO is the beginning and the ending of our salvation?" You already know the answer to that question. Yea! He, Jesus our Lord is BOTH the Alpha and the Omega and everything in between too as long as he is both our Lord and Christ in our lives.

The Gospel is NOT found in Acts 2:38. In fact, the Gospel is not found at al in the book of Acts or any of the Epistles as many mistakenly believe. The GOSPEL is found in the GOSPELS.