Thank you Bro. Ferd. I hope in the future I can do so ........ah......shall we say .......with a little more 'cooth'. That of a southern gentleman preferably.
aaurrgghhh
ahem
sorry, he just takes over sometimes
__________________ You can't reach the world with your talents. People are sick and tired of religious talents. People need a Holy Ghost annointed church with real fruits to reach out and touch their lives. ~ Pastor Burrell Crabtree
In fact I think that the insinuation of "hateful" Pentecostals is coming mostly from the fertile imaginations of bitter, backslidden ex Apostolics who are constantly trying to find a way to justify their actions. ~ strait shooter
In all I have read, I have seen much said that God's grace is not sufficient for the salvation of the soul, because we must have a man to say the sacred name of Jesus Christ over us in baptism for our sins to be remitted. Faith and grace have nothing to do with salvation it looks like, and the precious sacrifice of Calvary is not good enough.
In all that my three-step brethren have put forth, they have failed a litmus test of the scripture, the Ephesians 2:8-9 test.
Quote:
For it is by free grace (God's unmerited favor) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ's salvation) through [your] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [of your own doing, it came not through your own striving], but it is the gift of God; Not because of works [not the fulfillment of the Law's demands], lest any man should boast. [It is not the result of what anyone can possibly do, so no one can pride himself in it or take glory to himself.] {Ephesians 2:8-9}
I do feel strongly about this, now more than ever, that we are saved before baptism, but we are baptized because we are saved.
God does not give down payments on salvation either. The truth of this is found when several of the believers in the Bible received the baptism of the Holy Ghost before being baptized in water. They were saved, baptized with the Holy Ghost, and then baptized in Jesus name. We know that God does not dwell in unclean vessels according to the scriptures, thus a soul has to have been cleansed prior to their receiving the baptism of the Holy Ghost.
Another point lies in the issue of foreshadowing in the Old testament. When a soul was labeled cleaned by the priest, they were not mikvehed (baptized) then labeled clean. The priest announced the individual clean, and then they washed in water. This is so powerful as a foreshadow of baptism in our time. Baptism does not wash away sins, but we are baptized because our sins are washed away.
To my three-step brethren, I am still Apostolic. I still believe in Oneness, baptism in Jesus name, baptism of the Holy Ghost, and living a consecrated life before the Lord. I believe, as the Apostles did, that once a soul repents and confesses their sins, Jesus is faithful enough to forgive them of their sins and cleanse them of all unrighteousness. His blood is that powerful and His sacrifice was that great.
In all I have read, I have seen much said that God's grace is not sufficient for the salvation of the soul, because we must have a man to say the sacred name of Jesus Christ over us in baptism for our sins to be remitted. Faith and grace have nothing to do with salvation it looks like, and the precious sacrifice of Calvary is not good enough.
In all that my three-step brethren have put forth, they have failed a litmus test of the scripture, the Ephesians 2:8-9 test.
I do feel strongly about this, now more than ever, that we are saved before baptism, but we are baptized because we are saved.
God does not give down payments on salvation either. The truth of this is found when several of the believers in the Bible received the baptism of the Holy Ghost before being baptized in water. They were saved, baptized with the Holy Ghost, and then baptized in Jesus name. We know that God does not dwell in unclean vessels according to the scriptures, thus a soul has to have been cleansed prior to their receiving the baptism of the Holy Ghost.
Another point lies in the issue of foreshadowing in the Old testament. When a soul was labeled cleaned by the priest, they were not mikvehed (baptized) then labeled clean. The priest announced the individual clean, and then they washed in water. This is so powerful as a foreshadow of baptism in our time. Baptism does not wash away sins, but we are baptized because our sins are washed away.
To my three-step brethren, I am still Apostolic. I still believe in Oneness, baptism in Jesus name, baptism of the Holy Ghost, and living a consecrated life before the Lord. I believe, as the Apostles did, that once a soul repents and confesses their sins, Jesus is faithful enough to forgive them of their sins and cleanse them of all unrighteousness. His blood is that powerful and His sacrifice was that great.
Bro. Price are you calling what grace provided NOT being grace????
That passage you and all faith only teachers misuse contradicts your only Baptist theology(didn't call you a Baptist mind you just your theology.)
BECAUSE nothing is said about repentance in the passage and man does the repenting NOT GOD!!!!!!!!
The verse is simply teaching man cannot merit his salvation by good works this has NOTHING to do with OBEYING the gospel. OBEDIENCE to the gospel is NOT works it is true genuine Biblical faith.
I believed so I repented.
I believed so I was baptized.
I believed so I recieved His Spirit.
I believe so I walk daily with Him until He appears.
Water was as much of the Tabernacle plan as the blood.
Blood-water-oil.
Bro. Price are you calling what grace provided NOT being grace????
That passage you and all faith only teachers misuse contradicts your only Baptist theology(didn't call you a Baptist mind you just your theology.)
BECAUSE nothing is said about repentance in the passage and man does the repenting NOT GOD!!!!!!!!
The verse is simply teaching man cannot merit his salvation by good works this has NOTHING to do with OBEYING the gospel. OBEDIENCE to the gospel is NOT works it is true genuine Biblical faith.
I believed so I repented.
I believed so I was baptized.
I believed so I recieved His Spirit.
I believe so I walk daily with Him until He appears.
Water was as much of the Tabernacle plan as the blood.
Blood-water-oil.
Bro. Epley,
Thanks for your response. I do not take offense at your calling this a Baptist theology. In my time, I have been called much worse, as have my beliefs.
You made a good point in the above post, and I do not think you really realized what you said, brother. You said:
Quote:
The verse is simply teaching man cannot merit his salvation by good works this has NOTHING to do with OBEYING the gospel. OBEDIENCE to the gospel is NOT works it is true genuine Biblical faith.
Brother Epley, the Gospel is the life, death, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. Obedience to the Gospel involves faith, not works. For God so loved the world the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes on Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 is the verse of the Gospel in which Jesus shows how much God loves us, that when we believe on Jesus, we shall not perish (the second death) but have everlasting life.
You also said in the above:
Quote:
BECAUSE nothing is said about repentance in the passage and man does the repenting NOT GOD!!!!!!!!
This is so true. We must come to Christ by faith, and repent of our sins. The scripture I gave speaks of the grace of God being given through our faith. It does not negate the need for repentance, but shows us that our salvation comes by the favor of God when we believe.
Brother, listen to this young man. I still believe in Jesus name baptism, even more strongly now than I ever did. But, I see the grace of God being stronger than anything else. His blood is sufficient. Man does not need to help save, for we are saved by the favor of God when we believe.
In all I have read, I have seen much said that God's grace is not sufficient for the salvation of the soul,
Brother Price, not one person in this thread has said anyting remotley resembling the above statement. It is pure heresy to suggest that the Grace of God is not sufficient for salvation.
Anyone who would say that the Grace of God is not sufficient is doing so either in ignorance or willful disobedience to scripture.
NO ONE on this forum who believes the Water Spirit Doctrine has suggested that the Grace of God is not sufficient.
As much has the PCI folk want us to know they believe/teach/preach/practice Acts 2:38, it needs to be equally clear that W/S believers stand firmly in our faith that anyone who is saved, is saved by Grace thru Faith in Jesus Christ, and not of ourselves.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
Thanks for your response. I do not take offense at your calling this a Baptist theology. In my time, I have been called much worse, as have my beliefs.
You made a good point in the above post, and I do not think you really realized what you said, brother. You said:
Brother Epley, the Gospel is the life, death, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. Obedience to the Gospel involves faith, not works. For God so loved the world the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes on Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 is the verse of the Gospel in which Jesus shows how much God loves us, that when we believe on Jesus, we shall not perish (the second death) but have everlasting life.
You also said in the above:
This is so true. We must come to Christ by faith, and repent of our sins. The scripture I gave speaks of the grace of God being given through our faith. It does not negate the need for repentance, but shows us that our salvation comes by the favor of God when we believe.
Brother, listen to this young man. I still believe in Jesus name baptism, even more strongly now than I ever did. But, I see the grace of God being stronger than anything else. His blood is sufficient. Man does not need to help save, for we are saved by the favor of God when we believe.
Bro. Price it is YOU that do not realize what you posted.
Yes the foundation of the Christian experience is His death-burial-resurrection and PAUL(not DAN) said we experience that through being identified with His death-burial-resurrection and the burial taught by Paul is BAPTISM. Rom.6:3-4, Col.2:12.
Our burial places us INTO Christ verse 3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That is FAITH not mental assent but obeying was faith demands!
Faith demands something out of all that believe read Hebrews 11!
Salvation does come WHEN we believe the proof of Bible faith is to obey the gospel.
MAN repents NOT God thus according to your theology repentance must be WORKS since man does it. If repentance is NOT works then baptism is NOT works they both stand or fall on the same premise MAN is doing it as his part of faith.
NO man is saved BY only what God has done that is what universalism is teaching the doctrine of inclusion. God has done His part perfectly it is man that must obey what grace and the blood has provided.
The lamb provided the blood but man placed it on the door post. GOD did not put one drop of blood on ONE doorpost in Egypt but He did provide the plan and the blood.
My reason for calling your doctrine Baptist is because I have been fussing with the Baptist for over 40 years and this is their doctrine. This is not meant as a personal insult. If a man doesn't want to be identified with the Baptist he should not promote Baptist doctrine.
I will continue this discussion later. Hold that thought. I have to help Mom. She needs a newer vehicle now that she is starting to come to Church with me. (YES!!!) So, we will continue this later this afternoon or this evening.
But, until then, Bro. Epley, realize that from what you have said, you have made the preacher a co-redeemer of sorts, for God alone does not save. Think about this, brother, and think real hard. Love ya in Christ.
I will continue this discussion later. Hold that thought. I have to help Mom. She needs a newer vehicle now that she is starting to come to Church with me. (YES!!!) So, we will continue this later this afternoon or this evening.
But, until then, Bro. Epley, realize that from what you have said, you have made the preacher a co-redeemer of sorts, for God alone does not save. Think about this, brother, and think real hard. Love ya in Christ.
Bill,
Congratulations on your Mom's move in faith toward Jesus! Do all you can to assist her.
If what you have hypothesized is proofed then in your position of the penitent, upon repenting, would also be a co-redeemer. This is a fallacious position unless you are going to further travel the path of reformed Calvinist teaching to the place of unqualified predestination and that even in repentance the penitent has no part at all in the process of obedience or salvation... not even assent.
I will continue this discussion later. Hold that thought. I have to help Mom. She needs a newer vehicle now that she is starting to come to Church with me. (YES!!!) So, we will continue this later this afternoon or this evening.
But, until then, Bro. Epley, realize that from what you have said, you have made the preacher a co-redeemer of sorts, for God alone does not save. Think about this, brother, and think real hard. Love ya in Christ.
That ia absurd.
How shall they hear without a preacher? Paul said does that make a preacher a co-redeemer?
It was Baptist preached that preached this faith only absurdity did that make him a co-redeemer.
Talk about a strawman.
Listen up all you self led-self made-arm quarterbacks
"It PLEASED God BY the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe."
1Cor.1:21
He sent out preachers Mt.28:19,Mk.16:15, Luke 24:47.
And did they preach! Just read what they preached in Acts 2:38!!!!
Don't sound like faith only to me!
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