Water Baptism.....Just What Is It For?

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Brother Price

Brother, if Jesus is the Savior, then He is sufficient. He does not need man's work to help save.

Thus faith and repentance does not having anything to do with personal salvation God does it all.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Brother Price

And therein lies the problem with so many. We want Him as Savior, but not as Lord. We want forgiveness but not sanctification. When one is saved by grace, one MUST realize that Christ is Lord and He alone can save.

Jesus ALONE does NOT save anyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Man has to come to Jesus to be saved. Man has to HEAR-BELIEVE-OBEY!
Jesus has never saved anyone ALONE with their cooperation.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

Well stated, bro Phil...

You and I are on the same page here.

I've said it many times before in light of the narrow UNDUE focus on Acts 2:38 and the great impulse to give everyone the Holy Ghost and get them baptized, we have neglected the MOST important unseen ritual of all...that is MAKING Jesus LORD in our lives. Acts 2:38 is neither the beginning nor is it the end or the finishing of our salvation. What would be the beginning and the ending? No, I asked the wrong question. It should read, 'WHO is the beginning and the ending of our salvation?" You already know the answer to that question. Yea! He, Jesus our Lord is BOTH the Alpha and the Omega and everything in between too as long as he is both our Lord and Christ in our lives.

The Gospel is NOT found in Acts 2:38. In fact, the Gospel is not found at al in the book of Acts or any of the Epistles as many mistakenly believe. The GOSPEL is found in the GOSPELS.

So now the Apostles did NOT preach the gospel?????????????
Then it was Jesus who was an idiot to send them to preach the gospel and the Holy Ghost did not do it's job in reminding them to preach the gospel?
You get farther out all the time. Acts messes you up and the Epistles keep you there and in truth the Gospels do not help you either.

[OneAccord]

Oh, I'm beginning to get it now. This is a game. Someone says something, then someone says just the opposite. Some of our neices and nephews play that game. Its called Opposites. Good game to teach kids that everything has an opposite. But, I always thought it was a kids game. Which goes to show we haven't grown very much since Pauls day, because the Corintiian church was playing this same game in 1 Cor. 1. And, the subject was baptism then, too. One would say "I'm of Paul" another would say "I am Cephas". They played Mixed Up, too. "Paul was crucified", "Baptized in the name of Paul". Good games. But.... in that game is question we should ask ourselves....


1Cr 1:13 Is Christ divided? It seems He is....

So, have fun... Ain't got time to play because...


1Cr 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

[Apprehended]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

So now the Apostles did NOT preach the gospel?????????????
Then it was Jesus who was an idiot to send them to preach the gospel and the Holy Ghost did not do it's job in reminding them to preach the gospel?
You get farther out all the time. Acts messes you up and the Epistles keep you there and in truth the Gospels do not help you either.

I'm further out all the time?

I'm shocked. Did I say that the Apostles did not preach the gospel? No, I did not. From your one-sided view point, you came to that conclusion alone.

Do we preach the Apostles or do we preach Christ? Our interpretation of what the Apostles preached must align itself with the GOSPELS and NOT vice-versa as so many "Acts 2:38 only" proponents try to make it.

Go back to the Gospels. Then align what the Apostles preached with the message of the Gospels. It will keep you straight on what the Apostles preached. Jesus Christ is the Chief Corner Stone...not your interpretation of what the message of the Apostles was.

The Apostles are also the foundation stones of the church but they measure OFF the Chief Cornerstone...not the other way around.

No! For your information Jesus was no IDIOT, as you suggested. It's time to get out thinking aligned correctly to the teaches of Jesus. Those teachings are found in the GOSPELS and NOT flawed interpretations of what the Apostles preached.

If you want to only take one or two scriptures and build an entire church world on it, and condemn everyone, I could take two or three scriptures in the GOSPELS and condemn far MORE to hell...including YOU.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

I'm further out all the time?

I'm shocked. Did I say that the Apostles did not preach the gospel? No, I did not. From your one-sided view point, you came to that conclusion alone.

Do we preach the Apostles or do we preach Christ? Our interpretation of what the Apostles preached must align itself with the GOSPELS and NOT vice-versa as so many "Acts 2:38 only" proponents try to make it.

Go back to the Gospels. Then align what the Apostles preached with the message of the Gospels. It will keep you straight on what the Apostles preached. Jesus Christ is the Chief Corner Stone...not your interpretation of what the message of the Apostles was.

The Apostles are also the foundation stones of the church but they measure OFF the Chief Cornerstone...not the other way around.

No! For your information Jesus was no IDIOT, as you suggested. It's time to get out thinking aligned correctly to the teaches of Jesus. Those teachings are found in the GOSPELS and NOT flawed interpretations of what the Apostles preached.

If you want to only take one or two scriptures and build an entire church world on it, and condemn everyone, I could take two or three scriptures in the GOSPELS and condemn far MORE to hell...including YOU.

Speaking of IDIOTS....

FLAWED interpetations of the Apostles??????????? This is exactly what I have been talking about this insults the written Word of God. Thus the scriputures evidently are NOT inspired?????????????

[Apprehended]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

FLAWED interpetations of the Apostles??????????? This is exactly what I have been talking about this insults the written Word of God. Thus the scriputures evidently are NOT inspired?????????????

It is not that scripture is not inspired. Hearing of those who read scripture are not inspired. There is a difference.

Many things inspire hearing.

Itching ears.

Tradition of the Elders.

Sin.

Carnal rasonings.

Unfounded assmptions.

All of these things and many more "inspire" how one hears in a pervese sort of way. Now getting back to the teachings of JESUS, he instructed us to take care in HOW we hear. Many have ears but hear not. Many have eyes and see not. Can't blame the scriptures for beng unspired but there is plenty blame that can be placed on the divinely un-inspired hearers and hearing.

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

It represents the passing of the old world that was under a curse as Noah did in the Ark, into a new world into a new life. It is the commencement of a new life in a new world after having passed through the waters of destruction while leaving the old cursed world behind. Peter alludes to this sort of circumcision...the cutting away of the old, to resurrect into the new.

Thus one is still abiding in their old life until they have been water baptized in Jesus Name.

This is my understanding, and the reason I cannot accept one as "saved" prior to water baptism. The Old Man MUST be put down. The heart MUST be circumcised. There MUST be the cutting away of the OLD before there can be a resurrection into the new.

[Apprehended]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Thus one is still abiding in their old life until they have been water baptized in Jesus Name.

This is my understanding, and the reason I cannot accept one as "saved" prior to water baptism. The Old Man MUST be put down. The heart MUST be circumcised. There MUST be the cutting away of the OLD before there can be a resurrection into the new.

That is true...

Depending of course on what your interpretation of "saved" might be.

I was saved. I am saved. I am being saved. I will be saved.

I was saved when I cried unto the Lord confessing my sins. I am saved because I am walking in the light. I am being saved by absolute obedience (which includes Acts 2:38). I will be saved if I will endure unto the end.

The word saved simply means "delivered." For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be DELIVERED. The NT uses the word SAVED in repeating that OT scripture.

The prayer of faith shall "save" the sick. That does not mean that they are wrapped up, packaged up and in heaven. That simply means that the sick shall be delivered from their sickness.

When I called on the Lord, confessing my sins, repenting. I was delivered (saved) from the guilt, burden and presence of sin.

There is a lot of misunderstanding and misuse of the word "saved." It leads to a lot of confusion among us.

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

That is true...

Depending of course on what your interpretation of "saved" might be.

I was saved. I am saved. I am being saved. I will be saved.

I was saved when I cried unto the Lord confessing my sins. I am saved because I am walking in the light. I am being saved by absolute obedience (which includes Acts 2:38). I will be saved if I will endure unto the end.

The word saved simply means "delivered." For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be DELIVERED. The NT uses the word SAVED in repeating that OT scripture.

The prayer of faith shall "save" the sick. That does not mean that they are wrapped up, packaged up and in heaven. That simply means that the sick shall be delivered from their sickness.

When I called on the Lord, confessing my sins, repenting. I was delivered (saved) from the guilt, burden and presence of sin.

There is a lot of misunderstanding and misuse of the word "saved." It leads to a lot of confusion among us.

So you believe a baptist man or woman who has "called on the name of the Lord" and walked in that light only until their death is going to hear, "Well done though good and faithful servant"? I am sorry, but new birth is where life begins, and that occurs when one is born of water and of Spirit. While I would never criticize someone that has not reached that place, I would always encourage them that there is more. And new birth is just the beginning of the new life in Christ. There is room all the way from beginning to ending where one could step away, or get bogged down in legalistic ritual, and lose their salvation. But new birth is the beginning of the new life.