Where are all the Acts 2:38 folks (3-steppers)??

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Brother Price

OK, I was lurking for a moment before I needed to start getting ready, but when I said this, I logged back on and decided to throw this in.

Bro. Epley, that was so far below the belt, it was not funny. You know better than to do this, my dear brother. This is just uncalled for.

You know, I was gonna push for some action on this but after reading what he posted and later posts I can see his intent was not to insult.

DA insists such a viewpoint is "paptist, sacramentalist, baptismal regenerationalist" in nature and if DAs father held such a view it would be fair then to ask DA if his own father was a such in DAs estimation.

In any case the Admins are looking at this.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Brother Price

In all that my three-step brethren have put forth, they have failed a litmus test of the scripture, the Ephesians 2:8-9 test.

The works mentioned in Ephesians are not speaking of water baptism. Water baptism is a PUTTING AWAY of the ORIGIN OF WORKS, by burying and destroying the old man. The old man is the one who works and tries to save himself. Burying him is the opposite of works for salvation. All that we can do is REMOVE what hinders God by volition. Only GOD ADDS salvation and righteousness. But we must consciously remove what hinders Him from saving us. HE does the saving, not us. Baptism has nothing to do with works that cause righteousness. It is part of REMISSION of sins.

Water baptism CAUSES remission of sins as much as the BLOOD causes it, because God requires our obedience. The same phrase in Greek that refers to blood causing remission of sins is used in speaking of repentance and baptism. So, baptism cannot be done BECAUSE sins were remitted, since the BLOOD of Jesus is not applied BECAUSE sins were already remitted. Whatever we say about the phrase in association with the blood must be said about repentance and baptism:

Matthew 26:28 KJV For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Acts 2:38 KJV Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The works mentioned in the context of Ephesians are works to attain righteousness. Baptism is not done to attain righteousness. It is the putting away of the old man by identification with Christ's death and burial. Christ's work on the cross makes us righteous. Not water baptism. But water Baptism is still part of salvation, but not in the form of being a work to accomplish righteousness. Righteousness is attained by God giving us HIS OWN righteousness.

Mark 16:16 KJV He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

1 Peter 3:21 KJV The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Baptism PUTS OFF sins of the flesh.

Colossians 2:11-12 KJV In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: (12) Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

It's not the water, but faith for God to perform an operation.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Get the tapes from any PSR conference. And you should have been at some of the "after service" fellowships.

Go to http://www.therockchurch.org and download the featured speaker from the "No Limits" 06 Conference. Call that same evangelist up and ask him what he thinks about David Bernard starting a church in Austin, TX.

Try to get some of the tapes for the past AMC conferences. They are available to "ministers only." Gotta keep that stuff out of general circulation.

Get Jesse William's message from the 1992 General Conference and pay particular attention to the part where he decries the "smutty jokes" that were then current among a particular segment of the Apostolic ministry.

There was one story in particular that the aforementioned "Apostolic" who preached in the same "valley" as Clyde Haney used to tell. He told it with such mirth that it got him a rather off-color nickname that I cannot post here. The nickname came from the punch-line of the joke.

Brother,

There is something about this post that doesn't set right with my spirit. I hope your not saying all "three-steppers" are like these brothers who are exhibiting unChrist-like behavior and all "one-steppers" are without sin. I agree with you that those who believe salvation is at faith and repentance were hard done by when the AS came out, but there is just something wrong with the way you are going about things here. Maybe some deep seated resentment?

I just finished reading A Tale of Three Kings by Gene Edwards. Have you read it?

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Brother,

There is something about this post that doesn't set right with my spirit. I hope your not saying all "three-steppers" are like these brothers who are exhibiting unChrist-like behavior and all "one-steppers" are without sin. I agree with you that those who believe salvation is at faith and repentance were hard done by when the AS came out, but there is just something wrong with the way you are going about things here. Maybe some deep seated resentment?

I just finished reading A Tale of Three Kings by Gene Edwards. Have you read it?

Mizpeh, I think this post was in reponse to the part of Scotty's post where he said: "Its getting to the point I start wondering how much is actually true.

So it seems, Pel is showing how actually true it is...how prevalent that is, I have no clue.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Get the tapes from any PSR conference. And you should have been at some of the "after service" fellowships.

Go to http://www.therockchurch.org and download the featured speaker from the "No Limits" 06 Conference. Call that same evangelist up and ask him what he thinks about David Bernard starting a church in Austin, TX.

Try to get some of the tapes for the past AMC conferences. They are available to "ministers only." Gotta keep that stuff out of general circulation.

Get Jesse William's message from the 1992 General Conference and pay particular attention to the part where he decries the "smutty jokes" that were then current among a particular segment of the Apostolic ministry.

There was one story in particular that the aforementioned "Apostolic" who preached in the same "valley" as Clyde Haney used to tell. He told it with such mirth that it got him a rather off-color nickname that I cannot post here. The nickname came from the punch-line of the joke.

My first pastor, a very conservative preacher and a hard core three stepper....did not want us to go to PSR.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by J-Roc

Mizpeh, I think this post was in reponse to the part of Scotty's post where he said: "Its getting to the point I start wondering how much is actually true.

So it seems, Pel is showing how actually true it is...how prevalent that is, I have no clue.

I know what Pelathais is responding to. I wish he had used generalizations instead of names and places. I also had his other post in mind when I wrote that in which he said:

In time, I watched as others took care of the "passing judgment" for me. And then even the Required Reading materials were quietly changed and good men were driven out of the fellowship. Finally one of the "holier than thous" asked me to help cover the adultery of a buddy of his. I could no longer find any zeal to support these guys.

I'm curious to know if this is his opinion of all 'three stepper' because that is the impression I am getting.

I'm sure it is true and prevalent but I cannot believe it is the norm.

[Brother Price]

I am back from the experience, and from what I have seen, this has went from scriptural discussion to personal insults, to damning others to Hell. Here is the case in point to me, and I think I will excuse myself for a few hours from this thread.

I cannot nor will I judge someone in the Church who believes in repentance and Jesus name baptism to Hell. I am not God, just His servant. I have no desire to kick God off of His throne and tell someone that unless they get baptized, they are not saved. I am still as Apostolic as I ever was. And, this whole mess needs to stop now.

No one is convincing anyone. Everyone is attacked or attacking. One damns souls to Hell when they do not believe exactly as they should. ENOUGH! (Yes, I am shouting!)

You have no right to ........ a soul to hell, because you cannot judge me as lost. You are not God, and neither am I. We are all in the gracious hands of the Lord Jesus Christ, and no one, No One has the right to judge a brother in such a manner. Sin is not at the door here, and false doctrine is judged by some only when they disagree with another's POV.

Might I suggest and end to this?

Admins, please, for the sake of unity, close and delete this thread. I ask sincerely of this.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I know what Pelathais is responding to. I wish he had used generalizations instead of names and places. I also had his other post in mind when I wrote that in which he said:

I'm curious to know if this is his opinion of all 'three stepper' because that is the impression I am getting.

I'm sure it is true and prevalent but I cannot believe it is the norm.

He did agree that the focus should be on God but he never did actually say if he lumped us together. I have noticed many posters who do that. Seems like ones who have had a bad experience in UPC and all of a sudden the whole doctrine and everyone who believes in it is the enemy.

[James Griffin]

Originally Posted by Ferd

James, the point here is that we have to deal with where the pendulum is... not where it was or where it will be.

True, and might I suggest that the more mature (often not the same as more aged) should be able to look past the delivery and still be able to read the message.

Unfortunately, it still seems to have denigrated, ON BOTH SIDES.

I am seeing less and less refutation of position and more personal attacks.

Frankly, in careful reading of the posts, Dan seems to be attacking ideas and beliefs and receiving personal attacks on his method of delivery in response.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by Brother Price

I am back from the experience, and from what I have seen, this has went from scriptural discussion to personal insults, to damning others to Hell. Here is the case in point to me, and I think I will excuse myself for a few hours from this thread.

I cannot nor will I judge someone in the Church who believes in repentance and Jesus name baptism to Hell. I am not God, just His servant. I have no desire to kick God off of His throne and tell someone that unless they get baptized, they are not saved. I am still as Apostolic as I ever was. And, this whole mess needs to stop now.

No one is convincing anyone. Everyone is attacked or attacking. One damns souls to Hell when they do not believe exactly as they should. ENOUGH! (Yes, I am shouting!)

You have no right to ........ a soul to hell, because you cannot judge me as lost. You are not God, and neither am I. We are all in the gracious hands of the Lord Jesus Christ, and no one, No One has the right to judge a brother in such a manner. Sin is not at the door here, and false doctrine is judged by some only when they disagree with another's POV.

Might I suggest and end to this?

Admins, please, for the sake of unity, close and delete this thread. I ask sincerely of this.

I'm .....not .......seeing ...........this................

But I agree, you may need to take some time brother, sometime we need to do that. Will say a prayer for you. God bless.