Scathing Letter From a Moderate! - Page 5

Felicity · #41 01-02-2008, 07:31 PM

I've known some very conservative men who were very very strong on the grace and mercy of God and preached the Cross consistently and powerfully.

On the other hand, I've known some so called Conservatives, Moderates and even Liberals who had a hard time showing grace and mercy to others even though it had been shown, demonstrated and granted to them over and over again not just by God Himself but by their own brothers and sisters. I'm not sure what emphasis they place/d on Calvary and the Cross, or if they truly understood/understand what transpired there.

ManOfWord · #42 01-02-2008, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais

As I understood it, the author did attach his name to the original letter. Pastor Poster chose to leave the name off when he posted the letter.

PP may have done this to facilitate or focus the discussion on the issues raised by the letter rather than have a discussion about the author.

I remember a discussion with one of the names you mention above. He said that "every movement needs to have a bowel movement" in reference to the events that would transpire in 1992. A couple of the young men I was with laughed and snickered. I guess "civility" is one of those relativistic things that the "libs" in the news media are always trying to push.

Well, there you have it folks....tolerance and civility from the UC camp!!

Rhoni · #43 01-02-2008, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pianoman

I thought the writer went a little too far! A lot of Utra-cons are good people and honestly believe they are doing God's will!

And just like Jim Jones, in the Guyana murders...he thought he was GOD! Just because you believe you are doing God's will doesn't get it...where is the fruit? the mercy? the forgivenes? and yes, the TOLERANCE.

Blessings, Rhoni

Felicity · #44 01-02-2008, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

Well, there you have it folks....tolerance and civility from the UC camp!!

I heard with my own ears one popular well known evangelist make the statement that "the trash needed to be gotten rid of" referring of course to people like ourselves who had problem at that time with some of the issues in regard to the AS statement.

I'm not sure he would be regarded as an Ultra Con.

Evang.Benincasa · #45 01-02-2008, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

Perhaps not, but it should give those with right thinking the courage to stand strong and not be swayed by the Tulsa Types.

Tulsa Types? Oh you mean the guys who hadn't changed their views? Brother Hoover, if you were working a job and prior to you taking the job you agreed with the company on a certain wage of 1500 a week, and then after you worked your first week they paid you only 500.00 would you have a good reason to be upset?

You see Brother Hoover the so-called Tulsa-Types never changed what they believed, and so the organization decided by a vote of those who happened to show up in Tampa Florida, to make the change.

Those who didn't want to change and stick with what they all agreed on once, wanted to leave.

It's just like a man making an agreement to be paid a certain wage, and after he has been working hard for the company he finds that the pay has been changed.

Did every single Brother who holds license with the UPCI get to vote? Who knows, but I'll tell you this the Tulsa-Types never changed, it was the one's who voted to have television who changed.

Now that I said all that, I think no one should be taking pot shots at YOUR Brothers who left, they are still your Brothers whether you like it or not. All the Television-Types got what they wanted so have your televised revival and lets hear what happens in ten years from now.

Time proves all things. Lets have some respect for those Brothers, they are still your Brothers, no matter what.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

pelathais · #46 01-02-2008, 07:59 PM

Hi E.B. I hope you and your family had a wonderful holiday and a blessed New Year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Tulsa Types? Oh you mean the guys who hadn't changed their views? Brother Hoover, if you were working a job and prior to you taking the job you agreed with the company on a certain wage of 1500 a week, and then after you worked your first week they paid you only 500.00 would you have a good reason to be upset?

You see Brother Hoover the so-called Tulsa-Types never changed what they believed, and so the organization decided by a vote of those who happened to show up in Tampa Florida, to make the change.

Those who didn't want to change and stick with what they all agreed on once, wanted to leave.

It's just like a man making an agreement to be paid a certain wage, and after he has been working hard for the company he finds that the pay has been changed.

A couple of statements stand out to me here. The first one was "who happened to show up..." Now, whatever your view on the outcome of any vote, the UPCI by laws and Constitution specifically state that the voting members at General Conference will decide the issue. It's not a random, "who ever shows up" kind of affair. It is the official voting and business sessions. All ministers in the UPC are schooled on this.

The other thing that stands out is "change." Resolution #4 in Tampa merely unchanged a change that was made in 1977. I think most of the ministers in Tampa remember 1977 and the effects that vote had on the org. This on again/off again ban of TV ministry hardly even effects the org. And just look at the web sites of some of the Tulsa coordinators. These guys know how to use video and have been doing so for years. Res. #4 isn't the issue here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Did every single Brother who holds license with the UPCI get to vote? Who knows, but I'll tell you this the Tulsa-Types never changed, it was the one's who voted to have television who changed.

Again, it's the GC that speaks for the org, unless you're suggesting a change. But change is bad, right? And the one's who vote for Res. #4 have been in favor of this the whole time. They didn't change.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Now that I said all that, I think no one should be taking pot shots at YOUR Brothers who left, they are still your Brothers whether you like it or not. All the Television-Types got what they wanted so have your televised revival and lets hear what happens in ten years from now.

Time proves all things. Lets have some respect for those Brothers, they are still your Brothers, no matter what.

Amen, and amen to the statements about brothers. But I don't think SH was taking potshots at anyone. It seemed to me that he was appealing for unity and speaking against divisivness. Remember, the brother who is calling and writing to the preachers in the UPCI directory is still our brother.

And as he goes down the list making promises and assigning committee duties to his recruits he is in fact working against the Fundamental Doctrine of the UPCI. So, as brothers we should all be speaking out against the errors of our wayward brothers and commend those who resist this error.

Dora · #47 01-02-2008, 08:01 PM

I've known some very conservative men who were very very strong on the grace and mercy of God and preached the Cross consistently and powerfully.

I've known some so called Conservatives, Moderates and even Liberals who had a hard time showing grace and mercy to others even though it had been shown, demonstrated and granted to them over and over again not just by God Himself but by their own brothers and sisters. I'm not sure what emphasis they place/d on Calvary and the Cross, or if they truly understood/understand what transpired there.

testing?

Felicity · #48 01-02-2008, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dora

I've known some very conservative men who were very very strong on the grace and mercy of God and preached the Cross consistently and powerfully.

I've known some so called Conservatives, Moderates and even Liberals who had a hard time showing grace and mercy to others even though it had been shown, demonstrated and granted to them over and over again not just by God Himself but by their own brothers and sisters. I'm not sure what emphasis they place/d on Calvary and the Cross, or if they truly understood/understand what transpired there.

testing?

LOL! Did you like my post Dora?

stmatthew · #49 01-02-2008, 08:12 PM

Having spent 6 1/2 years in an AMF church going to Conferences, fellowships, and Anniversary services, I can say that there were very few that I could say would resemble the above letter. Of course, there are always a few no matter what genre of apostolic we speak about.

Normally, someone that rights a letter this vicious needs to deal with some hidden bitterness that is present.

Hoovie · #50 01-02-2008, 08:12 PM

EB, Pel adequately addressed your concerns regarding unchanging "a change that was made in 1977".

I just need to tell you, I meant nothing disparaging with "Tulsa Types". Please know that even though I question the motives (I understand most of it is not about TV) of some who are Tulsa bound, I do not for a moment question whether they are my brothers. In fact, unlike some others, I believe it quite possible the meeting and what will follow is the will of God, and through this "division" may come groweth and maturity for Oneness Pentecostals.