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[IBCrazier2]

WPF is an honest attempt to embrace and work with any and all authentic Apostolics who are forward looking, agree with its Articles of Faith, desire to be proactive in propagating the gospel, and are of good spirit, regardless of organization affiliation or lack thereof. We feel it evident that the lack of concerted fellowship and cooperation between men of like precious faith due to organizationally imposed boundaries have hindered rather than helped the growth and power of the Kingdom of God.

What defines an authentic Apostolic?

Originally Posted by keith4him

For Phil

Taken from the website, their motivation is fear and not faith

"The formation of WPF is an outgrowth of the changing times and directions within the American apostolic movement and is the result of a constellation of events and decisions which have shaped apostolic direction for some time—some, we fear, for the worse, and ours hopefully for the better. "

Keith,

I couldn't agree with you more. This kind of leadership leads out of a fear based concept. If they cannot control something, it leaves them with a feeling of no self worth. So they have to manipulate something or do something that goes against normal icy to validate themselves. This kind of leadership does not lead pro actively, but reactively. If you look at Jesus, he was never seen doing anything like this. He didn't have to be a controller because he had enough self worth and was affirmed of who he really was. The day of influence for some of these people is over. They cant influence like they could back in the day and it bugs them. Someone that has to control something all the time in order to validate themselves and make themselves feel important will always lead that way. They will lead churches that way, people that way and sadly life that way. If we could ever wake up and realize that we don't have to be in control of every situation around us, think of how much further we could reach. Sadly, some people will never realize that and they will not see that they are showing people who they really are. We are arguing and splitting over something that in the course of the next 2 years will be in every home (and already is in most) through the internet anyway. It is INEVITABLE. If you have the internet you will be able to go turn it on to any channel you want. You already can to a degree. Even on our cell phones you can watch TV now. It sounds like if you own a cell phone you will probably go to hell. It doesn't make sense. Put the controlling aside and just live life to the fullest point you can. Its too short already.

[SavedLou]

Originally Posted by Thoughts by T

Keith,

I couldn't agree with you more. This kind of leadership leads out of a fear based concept. If they cannot control something, it leaves them with a feeling of no self worth. So they have to manipulate something or do something that goes against normal icy to validate themselves. This kind of leadership does not lead pro actively, but reactively. If you look at Jesus, he was never seen doing anything like this. He didn't have to be a controller because he had enough self worth and was affirmed of who he really was. The day of influence for some of these people is over. They cant influence like they could back in the day and it bugs them. Someone that has to control something all the time in order to validate themselves and make themselves feel important will always lead that way. They will lead churches that way, people that way and sadly life that way. If we could ever wake up and realize that we don't have to be in control of every situation around us, think of how much further we could reach. Sadly, some people will never realize that and they will not see that they are showing people who they really are. We are arguing and splitting over something that in the course of the next 2 years will be in every home (and already is in most) through the internet anyway. It is INEVITABLE. If you have the internet you will be able to go turn it on to any channel you want. You already can to a degree. Even on our cell phones you can watch TV now. It sounds like if you own a cell phone you will probably go to hell. It doesn't make sense. Put the controlling aside and just live life to the fullest point you can. Its too short already.

well put. i've often thought it was ironic that people are in a turmoil over the resolution being passed while most UPCers i know already own a TV with at least their local channels. now if the majority didn't i could see their point that this would cause it to occur. i would say it's about 85% true at my church. people tell me all the time that they've had one since the 60's just back then they kept it out of sight in case pastor came over

I know some of these guys personally. They are very controlling. At least the guys in my district.

[triumphant1]

Originally Posted by SavedLou

well put. i've often thought it was ironic that people are in a turmoil over the resolution being passed while most UPCers i know already own a TV with at least their local channels. now if the majority didn't i could see their point that this would cause it to occur. i would say it's about 85% true at my church. people tell me all the time that they've had one since the 60's just back then they kept it out of sight in case pastor came over

Ahhh...now you are proving Steve Epley's long held point...(you might not know who SE is but many of us do).

[SavedLou]

Originally Posted by triumphant1

Ahhh...now you are proving Steve Epley's long held point...(you might not know who SE is but many of us do).

so who is SE?

[dizzyde]

Originally Posted by IBCrazier2

What defines an authentic Apostolic?

That is my major problem with some of these guys (not all), that they somehow feel it is their right to judge who is preaching truth, based on their personal convictions. I realize this does not apply to all of these men, possibly not even most, but that is very dangerous mindset, IMO.

Originally Posted by dizzyde

That is my major problem with some of these guys (not all), that they somehow feel it is their right to judge who is preaching truth, based on their personal convictions. I realize this does not apply to all of these men, possibly not even most, but that is very dangerous mindset, IMO.

I agree. The guys on the list from my district have that attitude.

How much of all of this is due to unrest in California? The guys in my district who are involved with this have close ties to California.

It seems to me that the "virus" that has plagued California for so long is now being spread the nation.

[SavedLou]

have often heard very "controlling" stories about cali. one guy i know is only 32 and said growing up their pastor forbid the guys to wear certain types of jeans b/c they looked "gay". he isn't there anymore though...goes to one of those (gasp) liberal churches out there.

Originally Posted by Ron Turner

I agree. The guys on the list from my district have that attitude.

How much of all of this is due to unrest in California? The guys in my district who are involved with this have close ties to California.

It seems to me that the "virus" that has plagued California for so long is now being spread the nation.

Ron, you wouldn't be my kin folks would you... possibly living in OK?