Strange how it just isn't that easy for some folks, isn't it? Again, I don't think a man that claims to be Apostolic has to believe just like me in various areas... just the major ones like Jesus Name baptism and one God.
Here's a strange thing: We can be friends with a Baptist man or Lutheran woman and never think a thing about being their friend in spite of our vital and distinctive differences... but can't often fellowship people down the road over things so silly as someone having a projector in their Church.
Does that seem weird to anybody else besides me?
That is EXTREMELY weird and why can't others see it as being weird?
__________________
Master of Science in Applied Disgruntled Religious Theorist Wrangling
PhD in Petulant Tantrum Quelling
Dean of the School of Hard Knocks
Steadfast, I'm glad you brought this up, even though it could have easily turned into an ugly shout-fest. I think, having been on both sides of the fence at some point in my life, that both sides are misunderstood. When I was very young, and had just gotten the Holy Ghost, I tended to pick up EVERYTHING that anyone preached, no matter how far out and take it upon myself as a new "standard". I thought all men of God were really men of God and trusted them explicitly. I nearly drove my family and myself crazy! I would not even walk in a room where a TV was playing, and we had five in our house!
After having worked through all that and learning to understand the Word for myself, I now have deep convictions that are from God alone and I will not change them for anyone. Now to you, I may seem like a liberal, but to most of our friends, I am a die-hard conservative. So the titles are confusing once you get outside of the OP realm.
It saddens me that I can call you brother, but you probably would not call me sister. It saddens me that my real brother, who is one of the best speakers in the world, probably could never preach in our church. (I don't blame him for that; it's just the law of the land). It saddens me that all of us cannot fellowship over the 90% that we do agree on and forget the 10% that we disagree on. It saddens me that some people on here obviously do not think that I'm saved when I know the relationship I have with Jesus.
It is discouraging to post threads on here about people getting the Holy Ghost or getting healed and only a certain few people will respond, because the more conservative ones wouldn't want to acknowledge that it could actually happen or be the real thing. Just being honest here.....
That's why I love Sis. Alvear. She can absolutely see Jesus in everyone. She has come to visit me and we are as far apart in beliefs as anyone on here, but we love each other dearly. To me, she reaches out to every end of the spectrum and knows that God is working in all of us.
Hope this doesn't sound like "woe is me". I do love and appreciate everyone on here and highly respect your beliefs. I hope that I can prove myself to you as well.
Sherri,
You really hit the whole crux of the matter here. The libs can accept the cons as brothers, usually because of their "one step" theology and view of grace. The cons can't accept the libs the same way due to their staunch views which, in their view, cannot be compromised. To many, a compromise of "their" staunch con stand is "anathema, intolerable, and almost devilish. They cannot and will not accept the stance of a lib, because deep down inside they don't even think he or she is still saved.
So it is NOT just a matter of differences....at least not to most of the cons, it is a matter of salvation. Decades ago, that was not the case. Sadly, it is today. Having been on both sides myself, I have a much more clear understanding than someone who has not.
The bottom line issue is not insignificant things. The bottom line issue is salvation itself. That's why there are so many fireworks here on this forum.
And I can tell you who will "win." It will be the cons, because the libs have far more important things to do than to continually fuss about it.
__________________
"Those who go after the "Sauls" among us often slay the Davids among us." Gene Edwards
My criteria for friendship has more to do with character than with doctrine. I have no problem with people who are quite different in belief as long as they are true "christians" in their ethics and conduct.
The other issue that is important for me is mutual respect. I will not enter into any relationship that demands that I hide or compromise my understanding of God and truth.
After giving it some thought, I would answer, "neither" to the second question. I have found that some people are agenda driven without respect to whether they are liberal or conservative, and an agenda driven conservative who sees the light will become an agenda driven liberal.
I agree with Maple Leaf.
I would add though, that some liberals are agenda driven when they first leave "standards", but mellow over the years.
The bottom line issue is not insignificant things. The bottom line issue is salvation itself.
This sums it up.
__________________
His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
I think both sides have some who are ajenda driven. the largest part of us that meet in the middle arent. but anyone who has watched this board for any length of time has seen both sides go beyond debate.
There are plenty of examples of liberals who make fun of the constraints traditional OPs live by. we see it here, we see it in real life. you should sit with my wife and I with some of our "Liberated" friends. invarably the talk turns to how great it is that they can now cut their hair and wear pants.
"its too cold for a skirt, girl you really need to get yourself some bluejeans!"
thats been said plenty of times. ive seen that ajenda personally, repeatedly... and Im not even a conservitive.
But the same can be said for the other side. Anyone who doesnt recognize the PSR (or what ever it is called) out in California as being ALL ABOUT ajenda is kidding themselves.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
That is EXTREMELY weird and why can't others see it as being weird?
We had a pastor out here that preached at a conference and he said that" it all started with POWERPOINT" and that was the start of the downward trend of the UPC.
Although there may be a correlation there is no validity to your statement. Liberals, like Conservatives & Moderates, come in all different personality types.
I agree with Steadfast about some things. I do not respect the liberals who use the analogy that they have been delivered from legalism and promote the harrassing of those more conservative for their stand in holiness dress or their dogmaticism on the New Birth experience.
Pianoman knows of two churches in one city in which one has been consistently conservative and the other has had a dramatic change to the liberal side. My only issue with this conservative gone liberal church is that those who uphold a more conservative dress are often left out or teased about their continued adherence to the letter of the law.
One cannot be too holy, but one can be too arrogant and proud. Take the scribes & Pharisees for instance. I'd take the side of the publican and sinner any day and confess that I am a woman who is a sinner and I thank God for his mercy and grace. The one who prays and thanks God he isn't like myself [sinner] is the person I least want to be like.
Blessings,
Rhoni
Rhoni,
Good stuff here. I like the particular phrase you used about 'continued adherance to the letter of the law' in relationship to this particular discussion.
One cannot be too holy, but one can be too arrogant and proud. Take the scribes & Pharisees for instance. I'd take the side of the publican and sinner any day and confess that I am a woman who is a sinner and I thank God for his mercy and grace. The one who prays and thanks God he isn't like myself [sinner] is the person I least want to be like.
Well said, Rhoni. This knife cuts both ways.
__________________
His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
We had a pastor out here that preached at a conference and he said that" it all started with POWERPOINT" and that was the start of the downward trend of the UPC.
I wasn't at that meeting, but I remember the sermon.
My criteria for friendship has more to do with character than with doctrine. I have no problem with people who are quite different in belief as long as they are true "christians" in their ethics and conduct.
The other issue that is important for me is mutual respect. I will not enter into any relationship that demands that I hide or compromise my understanding of God and truth.
After giving it some thought, I would answer, "neither" to the second question. I have found that some people are agenda driven without respect to whether they are liberal or conservative, and an agenda driven conservative who sees the light will become an agenda driven liberal.
Wow! Another great post.
I do find it 'telling' that your last paragraph says, "...an agenda driven conservative who sees the light will become an agenda driven liberal..." which implies that those who are 'agenda driven' are not so because of either leaning but because of a character flaw.
Sort of like, pardon the honesty, but there are some people who are...simply by nature... obnoxious and 'in your face'.
Now that you mention it my mind does wander back to a particular individual who used to be a caustic conservative who was absolutely crude in his requirement that you see things just like him. He suddenly became 'enlightened' to 'my spiritual liberties' (meaning his kid wanted to play organized sports and he facilitated it by changing everything 'standard wise' in his world and called it 'found liberty') and, as you stated, he became just as agenda driven on the other side of the coin! You had to agree with him 100% on everything or it was a constant friction.
My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. 
Linear Mode
