Spiritual Abuse Forum???

[COOPER]

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

I have one thing to say to those that continue to woller in self victimization.

Mat 5:10 Blessed [are] they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Mat 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great [is] your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

That really doesn't apply to a "victim" of self victimization.

But that is encouraging to the many, many people who have been hurt by authoritarian and abusive churches. By denying or even down playing the existence of such things you are actually inviting some to try and "prove" you wrong by rehearsing and re-rehearsing the details of their own suffering.

By taking a mocking tone or even one of mere dismissal you perpetuate the feeling that these folks have that they still need to vent. And you make that venting inevitable.

[Hoovie]

I have not read this thread, but I was a guest on the Spiritual Abuse forum for a month. Neither Lois, myself, nor the others were anything less than polite - absolutely no UPC bashing on the thread I could read.

[Sherri]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

I have not read this thread, but I was a guest on the Spiritual Abuse forum for a month. Neither Lois, myself, nor the others were anything less than polite - absolutely no UPC bashing on the thread I could read.

I have talked to Lois (Sarge) since I started this thread yesterday. I think I had misunderstood her and I apologized.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

I have a policy that can be summed up in five words from the Scripture--"Tell it not in Gath."

I have been puzzled by this approach. No offense, but my reaction is "Who are you trying to kid?"

1Sam 31:8 And it came to pass on the morrow, when the Philistines came to strip the slain, that they found Saul and his three sons fallen in mount Gilboa.
1Sam 31:9 And they cut off his head, and stripped off his armour, and sent into the land of the Philistines round about, to publish it in the house of their idols, and among the people.

1Sam 31:10 And they put his armour in the house of Ashtaroth: and they fastened his body to the wall of Bethshan.

The fact that Saul and his sons were slain and that Israel was routed was already well publicized. Saul's armor was paraded as a trophy throughout the land of the Philistines and finally set up in the house of the goddess Ashtaroth. Jonathan and Saul's decapitated bodies were then affixed to the walls of Bethshan.

On an historical side note: Here is the "votive stela" or plaque where offerings were made in the House of Ashtaroth in the city of Bethshan in the late Bronze/early Iron Age. Saul's armor was no doubt laid before this very stela.


... there's more...

[pelathais]

As the events above are taking place David is informed of the death of Saul and Jonathan and he weeps. Among his anguished cries is the plea: "... tell it not in Gath..." David is of course speaking very emotionally and his plea isn't intended to be understood rationally. It's a cry of hurt and desperation.

But for us to build upon David's cry and to create a policy for dealing with those who have fallen among us is misguided. The simple fact of the matter is, "Gath" already knows. There is a parade and a party going on in "Gath" as we speak.

Some might say, "Well, don't add to the celebration..." I answer that with, "What's to add?" They have our fallen, they have humiliated and abused them, they waved our now empty armor before their gods. All that's left is the feast and orgy- and you can't stop that, they'll feast and frollick no matter what we do.

The first time I heard someone make this appeal was when a very prominent UPC pastor was preaching with us. During the altar call he suddenly cried out "Don't tell it in Gath!" It struck me as out of place, to say the least. But within a year he had abandoned his church, left his wife and ministry behind and fled.

We should not really concern ourselves with what "Gath" knows or doesn't know. If they don't get the facts they'll just make something up. That's the way it goes. We should however be concerned about enforcing a code of silence in "Jerusalem." Too often the cry, "Don't tell it in Gath..." really means, "Don't tell it in Jerusalem." This code of silence should not be tolerated.

My own story of abuse at the hands of my leaders was in fact exacerbated by my own willingness to keep silent. It wasn't until a few years later that I learned that my silence had in fact hurt many other people, helped to destroy a church, and deeply wounded a man I greatly admire- my D.S.

By speaking out we are in fact declaring that no more of our Lord's armor will be hanging on the walls of the house of Ashtaroth. By speaking out we are joining the men of Jabeshgilead and taking back the trophies from the walls of Bethshan.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Sherri

I have talked to Lois (Sarge) since I started this thread yesterday. I think I had misunderstood her and I apologized.

Though I obviously can't speak for her, I think I agree with "Sarge" when she said "No apologies needed..." You in fact brought up some important discussions. As long as we're talking we're making progress. IMHO, of course.

[augustianian]

I got kicked off her Yahoo forum years ago. I went under the name ouden katakrima. Lois was always cordial...i've got no problem with her and I think her website is beneficial to those who have been abused by the UPC's "men of God".

In fact, I think I went back over there and signed up. I just haven't visited the forum in a while.

She also asked me to write a refutation of Ruth Reider's book "Power Before the Throne"....but I think I've got ADD or something...so that article never came to fruition.

Im such a loser.

a

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by pelathais

As the events above are taking place David is informed of the death of Saul and Jonathan and he weeps. Among his anguished cries is the plea: "... tell it not in Gath..." David is of course speaking very emotionally and his plea isn't intended to be understood rationally. It's a cry of hurt and desperation.

But for us to build upon David's cry and to create a policy for dealing with those who have fallen among us is misguided. The simple fact of the matter is, "Gath" already knows. There is a parade and a party going on in "Gath" as we speak.

Some might say, "Well, don't add to the celebration..." I answer that with, "What's to add?" They have our fallen, they have humiliated and abused them, they waved our now empty armor before their gods. All that's left is the feast and orgy- and you can't stop that, they'll feast and frollick no matter what we do.

The first time I heard someone make this appeal was when a very prominent UPC pastor was preaching with us. During the altar call he suddenly cried out "Don't tell it in Gath!" It struck me as out of place, to say the least. But within a year he had abandoned his church, left his wife and ministry behind and fled.

We should not really concern ourselves with what "Gath" knows or doesn't know. If they don't get the facts they'll just make something up. That's the way it goes. We should however be concerned about enforcing a code of silence in "Jerusalem." Too often the cry, "Don't tell it in Gath..." really means, "Don't tell it in Jerusalem." This code of silence should not be tolerated.

My own story of abuse at the hands of my leaders was in fact exacerbated by my own willingness to keep silent. It wasn't until a few years later that I learned that my silence had in fact hurt many other people, helped to destroy a church, and deeply wounded a man I greatly admire- my D.S.

By speaking out we are in fact declaring that no more of our Lord's armor will be hanging on the walls of the house of Ashtaroth. By speaking out we are joining the men of Jabeshgilead and taking back the trophies from the walls of Bethshan.

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by pelathais

That really doesn't apply to a "victim" of self victimization.

But that is encouraging to the many, many people who have been hurt by authoritarian and abusive churches. By denying or even down playing the existence of such things you are actually inviting some to try and "prove" you wrong by rehearsing and re-rehearsing the details of their own suffering.

By taking a mocking tone or even one of mere dismissal you perpetuate the feeling that these folks have that they still need to vent. And you make that venting inevitable.

Having worked with those that were sexually abused in the past, one of the first things necessary is to get the person out of the victim roll. In doing so, I do not think we downplayed their trauma, but we had to encourage them to move on from it. There is no victory as long as one continually talks about their defeat. Not saying there should not be a time of getting it out, but only with the intent purpose of moving on.


On a side note, I wonder if the Spiritual Abuse site could be liable for a law suit from a disgruntled poster there for practicing without a license. I have not been there and do not know what they do there. Just asking a general question here.