Christianity Without the Cross, By Thomas A. Fudge

[ChurchMouse]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Please don't take offense, just be careful what you call history.

You have to keep in mind that these men that Fudge wrote about were Trinitarians who came into information that was always there. It wasn't a New Light, because the light was always on. These men saw water baptism in the name of Jesus only, and then they studied the Godhead and found out that God in three persons was a doctrine that had evolved through the ages and that it was incorrect. As these men came together to study the word there were some who were on learning curves and others who had found what they were looking for and moved no further.

Some didn't want to leave fellowships and others wanted to return and justified those notions.

I applaud your study of history, but please make sure you study out all the information you can get your hands on.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

www.IfAmericansKnew.com

No offense taken, and yes we do have to be very careful what we read. That's why I was trying to get info about the book before I spent money on it. Couldn't figure out from what I had read wheather or not if it was putting down oneness or what.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by ChurchMouse

No offense taken, and yes we do have to be very careful what we read. That's why I was trying to get info about the book before I spent money on it. Couldn't figure out from what I had read wheather or not if it was putting down oneness or what.

As you first start to read the book you will see that Fudge is trying to be fair and studious, but you will notice as you read further that his attitude changes. This change comes when Brother Hall at Hazelwood refuses to allow Fudge to use the archives. You can pick up Fudge's offence as you continue to examine his perception on what he is reporting on in his book.

This book should is only a start in a search that opens up how people go forward with new information they find, and others want to go backward with new information they find.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

www.IfAmericansKnew.com

[tv1a]

Blame could go both ways since Hall is one of the architects of the revisionist upci history. Hall has to protect his legacy.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

As you first start to read the book you will see that Fudge is trying to be fair and studious, but you will notice as you read further that his attitude changes. This change comes when Brother Hall at Hazelwood refuses to allow Fudge to use the archives. You can pick up Fudge's offence as you continue to examine his perception on what he is reporting on in his book.

This book should is only a start in a search that opens up how people go forward with new information they find, and others want to go backward with new information they find.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

www.IfAmericansKnew.com

[Steve Epley]

I think the book is a must for every Pentecostal preacher it is a biased book but what book isn't biased. He has an agenda it is very clear. So read it with that in mind. I have bought better than 25 of them and given them away to preacher friends. Remember history is only as acurate as the historian writing it. But he does give part of the merger history than is overlooked by many.

[ChurchMouse]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I think the book is a must for every Pentecostal preacher it is a biased book but what book isn't biased. He has an agenda it is very clear. So read it with that in mind. I have bought better than 25 of them and given them away to preacher friends. Remember history is only as acurate as the historian writing it. But he does give part of the merger history than is overlooked by many.

Thank You Bro. Steve, I will keep that in mind as I read it.

[Rhoni]

Timlan is an expert on the book as well as the church history. He would be a good resource.

I bought a copy and I've read it a few times and it was worth every dollar. You might want to look on ebay half.com. Sometimes they have used books for alot cheaper than retail. Plus you can sell some books you don't want and use that money to buy new ones. It is a pretty cool set up.

I'd give you mine but I have highlighted it and well quite frankly I like it too much!

Let us know what you think of it. It has lots of documented interviews. I think hundreds.

[Neck]

Originally Posted by ChurchMouse

I've seen mention of this book alot lately, before I buy it, I would like to know if anyone here has read it and if so, is it a good read, and accurate ?!

I have read it and have communicated with Thomas Fudge and his father.

My father was a friend of his dad.

My father preached at their church in New Brunswick Canada many times in the 1960's and 70's.

My dad passed away at 43 in 1978.

I was a member of a UPCI church my entire life.

I am now 43 and attend as of 2007 a non UPCI Pentecostal Oneness church.

I could not believe what I read in book.

How could so much of our history be left behind.

It gave me a fresh view of my history...

It is a great book..

N Eckstadt

[Neck]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

As you first start to read the book you will see that Fudge is trying to be fair and studious, but you will notice as you read further that his attitude changes. This change comes when Brother Hall at Hazelwood refuses to allow Fudge to use the archives. You can pick up Fudge's offence as you continue to examine his perception on what he is reporting on in his book.

This book should is only a start in a search that opens up how people go forward with new information they find, and others want to go backward with new information they find.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

www.IfAmericansKnew.com

Why don't you look at the why he was kept from the archieves?

Thomas Fudge quoted men in the book who were living and were part of the merger.

Many of which lived to see the book published, they did not refute the quotes attributed to them in the book.

I even can support as John Eckstadt's son that comments attributed to my dad are accurate.... Pages 283 and 292.

First I think you should read the book without looking for an attitude from the author....

N Eckstadt

[Apocrypha]

My uncle some resources to the book and is quoted a few times. He was mentored by Bro. Fred Foster and a few others in Texas and has been licensed in the UPC for nearly 40 years now. While he was a bit put off by the books negative slant, fundamentally Fudge wrote a masterpiece on our movement. He flat out buries any one who would say he lies by his meticulous footnoting.

I think its a great book, and if anyone has a issue with it they should write a rebuttal of equal scholarly work with the same level of documentation of resources and interviews. If the best arguement other people can come up with is that its impolite to destroy someone's edited version of history by actually using the people who lived it, then maybe they need to go back into the archives of the Historical Society in Hazelwood and examine if what we are today is different that what the UPCI was the day it merged.