Pastor forced to leave by cops @Tulsa Meeting

[Joseph Miller]

Originally Posted by The Closer

now could it be that it is not about control but about conviction

If you are speaking of the Tulsa 6 there is NOT a chance that it is about conviction. It is absolutely 100% about control and men having power.

[Whole Hearted]

It's funny how some here know the six Elders hearts.

I believe it is about conviction and doing what one feels is right.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Joseph Miller

If you are speaking of the Tulsa 6 there is NOT a chance that it is about conviction. It is absolutely 100% about control and men having power.

What makes you so sure, brother?

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by OP_Carl

The danger in arguing with an idiot is that bystanders lose track of which one is which.

yep, preach it.

[Joseph Miller]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

What makes you so sure, brother?

These guys were so secret about what they really were doing. They didn't want the truth to be told until just before the meeting. These 6 are men who wanted control in their districts when they were UPCI and didn't get it.

Most of them have been "independant" while still remaining in the UPCI. When they finally saw that things were not going to go exactly like they wanted they got together and formed thier own organization so they can control what goes on within their group.

The 1000 or 1500 or whatever the number of people who attended the meeting may be looking for a place that supports their convictions but the 6 that formed the organization I think really just wanted control. They won't keep it their forever there will be elections and things that will change up the leadership and somoene will not agree on every issue. I just wonder what they will do then.

Are they good men? Yes they are or I have always thought so anyway. I am not saying they are not good men I just believe that their motive is not right. This is all JMHO.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Joseph Miller

These guys were so secret about what they really were doing. They didn't want the truth to be told until just before the meeting. These 6 are men who wanted control in their districts when they were UPCI and didn't get it.

Most of them have been "independant" while still remaining in the UPCI. When they finally saw that things were not going to go exactly like they wanted they got together and formed thier own organization so they can control what goes on within their group.

The 1000 or 1500 or whatever the number of people who attended the meeting may be looking for a place that supports their convictions but the 6 that formed the organization I think really just wanted control. They won't keep it their forever there will be elections and things that will change up the leadership and somoene will not agree on every issue. I just wonder what they will do then.

Are they good men? Yes they are or I have always thought so anyway. I am not saying they are not good men I just believe that their motive is not right. This is all JMHO.

I understand, and I agree with you for the most part.

I guess I was just questioning the "NOTHING" part of convictions, I'm sure that has something to do with it.

As I posted on another thread, I think these men have been unhappy in the UPC for a while, and they finally found a cause that many would rally around. I think they've been unhappy with the "liberal" direction the UPC has taken, but it's hard to rally people to leave over jewelry or amusement parks. But, when you start talking television, now THERE'S a worthy cause that more will support.

[Whole Hearted]

I believe they have a very pure motive and that is to have a fellowship of like minded men with whom to fellowship. I was at the meeting and these men where very humble and there was no bad attitudes.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Whole Hearted

I believe they have a very pure motive and that is to have a fellowship of like minded men with whom to fellowship. I was at the meeting and these men where very humble and there was no bad attitudes.

I don't doubt that, WH, my question is "Why now"?

I mean, it's obvious that these men have been concerned about the direction the UPC has taken, why did they choose to leave now? Over the advertising on TV issue, when it's obvious that many in the UPC have been advertising or broadcasting on TV for quite a while?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

I don't doubt that, WH, my question is "Why now"?

I mean, it's obvious that these men have been concerned about the direction the UPC has taken, why did they choose to leave now? Over the advertising on TV issue, when it's obvious that many in the UPC have been advertising or broadcasting on TV for quite a while?

I just have a difficult time seeing NW as being that ardent about TV advertising.

He was on his way out a long time ago, though he obviously also wanted to stay. It seems to me that he was of two minds on the whole thing and when he didn't get the CA DS position I think he felt that his ability to influence things the way he saw it was over.

(And who wouldn't have liked to be in position to "clean up" the Western Dist? Talk about a "Herculean Task" and the "Augean Stables!").

I remember back before his move from MI and seeing him having to accept some unfairness. Everyone has to put up with this at some point in their lives. And then it seemed that the UPC never did recognize his talents for what they were. Too much competition. It seemed like many were interested in keeping him quiet so as to minimize his influence on the org. Too many "alpha males" clamoring for significance. Finally he'd had enough and wanted out.

I'm sympathetic to the man on this account. I just don't think he found a good vehicle to get out with. He will again have to make too many compromises and will be endlessly frustrated by the constant infighting and politics.

[Falla39]

Just wanted to mention that one of my brothers (pastors a UPC in Texas) called me
Friday night and during our conversation he said, "I'm in Tulsa". He went alone and I
had no idea he was going. If you want to find out something, check it out yourself!
If an adult is not mature enough to discern or try the spirits, to see if they be of God,
you probably should stay home and keep silent. I didn't go, but I am glad my brother
went because I believe him as I know him to be truthful. I know my brother. If you
went and didn't think God was there, could it be that your spirit was tuned in to
another source!

My brother gave a good report and I received it as such. Wonderful spirit and no
bashing. That's all I care to know or believe at this time. TIME will tell the rest of
the story. And as our late father said many years ago....

"Time changes everything except those things which are eternal. They change
not".

Blessings,

Falla39