Question Ladies: What Outward Standards are you Keeping?

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by MrsMcD

This part I cannot understand. I think we have all done this.

Some insist that a woman is to have "long hair" which, to them, means hair that is not cut or trimmed by sissors. Yet if they see a man with hair that hangs down over his ears, even though a several inches have been cut off by sissors, they smoothly change their definition and say he is a shame because he has "long hair," quoting 1 Corinthians 11:14.

When Paul wrote this scripture, we totolly over loook or turn a blind eye to the length of Paul's hair or other Christian and Jewish men of that ere.

Paul could put on a black suit and tie and the shiniset pair of oxford shoes...he still would not be allowed on the platform of your church today because of his long hair and his beard.


The peices of cloth that Paul wore and were annointed as "prayer cloths".
The words for those cloths in the originall language alluded to the fact that they were head bands, worn by men in that time, to keep their long hair pulled back and out of their eyes.

Yes...Paul wore a "dew rag"

We have long since left off keeping the main thing the main thing.

[LadyChocolate]

Originally Posted by QueenEsther

I agree!!! However I do usually wear coulottes when I go canoeing or horse back riding. But I have played tons of sports in a skirt and have went sledding and snow tubing, ice skating etc.......it can be done!!! I have never once regretted living the way I live even as a teenager!

Originally Posted by freeatlast

This is ridiculous teaching and false.

Paul addressed the "custom" of wearing veils. It was a "CUSTOM" only ! Not a biblical requirement.

To make his point that a Corinthian woman should veil, he compared a woman who refused to wear a veil when in temple to a woman who had her head shaved bald as a punishment for her whoredom or adultery.

It is accepted fact among historians of this age, that forced head shaving was a PUNISHMENT done to a woman who was found in adultery in that culture.

Paul's comparrison of a woman who would not veil in temple as bringing equal shame upon her husband for not veiling as a woman who had her head forcibly shaved as a punishment, is in NO WAY forbiding a women to of her own volition cut or trim some of the length of her hair.

Paul's later mention of a women having long hair and a man not having long hair, is simply another analogy Paul is using to demonstrate that there are cutural differences between men and women in hair length.

That women veil when in "church" and men do not is the point in 1 cor 11


Think about it....if we have been wrong in our teaching of the never cut doctrine....and I believe with all my heart that "we" are wrong...where will we stand on judgment day.

Will God hold us accountable for the souls we have may have run off or discouraged over this teaching?


OK..I'm done now....Blast away.

I understand what you are saying the bolded above....BUT...when I read this in the scripture, and see it to be the exact Word of God...Then it should be taught in love and in a manner where people would see, 'wow, this is more of God and I want more of it..." they won't be run off..... The problem comes when folks are blasted for things and told what a heathen they are......

If we that believe these "standards" are the true Word of God, if we are wrong, we haven't lost anything....

But if you are wrong about it......

[Pragmatist]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

We all were if you were raised UPC.

I was raised UPC and wasn't taught that.

[QueenEsther]

I will not condemn those that do cut their hair - I believe every standard must be personal in your heart and life. I went through a phase where I had my doubts about some but when I prayed about it and searched it out for myself I came to my own conclusions. Not all are in line with the UPC and some are. There are very few standards that I do not agree with yet do it in obedience and the hair one is not one of those. I do not cut my hair for personal reasons, after researching it for myself - as much as I can, I am no scholar and i don't think God intended for it to be hard but I do think he wants us to dig into his word and study it - I came to the conclusion to not cut my hair.

[QueenEsther]

Originally Posted by LadyChocolate

I understand what you are saying the bolded above....BUT...when I read this in the scripture, and see it to be the exact Word of God...Then it should be taught in love and in a manner where people would see, 'wow, this is more of God and I want more of it..." they won't be run off..... The problem comes when folks are blasted for things and told what a heathen they are......

If we that believe these "standards" are the true Word of God, if we are wrong, we haven't lost anything....

But if you are wrong about it......

Amen!!! Like I said the other day, even if all these issues are non-salvational there is truly no better way to live!!!! THis is the BEST way to live!! What do we have to loose?????? I feel sorry for those who feel that they are in bondage!

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by LadyChocolate

I understand what you are saying the bolded above....BUT...when I read this in the scripture, and see it to be the exact Word of God...Then it should be taught in love and in a manner where people would see, 'wow, this is more of God and I want more of it..." they won't be run off..... The problem comes when folks are blasted for things and told what a heathen they are......

If we that believe these "standards" are the true Word of God, if we are wrong, we haven't lost anything....

But if you are wrong about it......:dunno

I disagree LC. We blast people for teaching fales doctrines..doctrines they believe are in the bible...like snake handling, poison drinkling. Proxy baptism for the dead. Serpent seed doctrine, divine flesh doctrine, Preterism.

Are you saying if we sincerly believe theses things to be "the word from God" , that we will be in no danger teaching them?

If we impose and enforce no hair cutting and no pants wearing and we are wrong on our "intrepretaion" of the scripture we "think" these doctrines are found in that we havent lost anything?

I can't begin to tell you the people who have admitted our teaching of these doctrines are mis interpreted scripture, but are afraid of what others will think of them if they change what for so long they heralded as the only saving truth.

[LadyChocolate]

Originally Posted by QueenEsther

I will not condemn those that do cut their hair - I believe every standard must be personal in your heart and life. I went through a phase where I had my doubts about some but when I prayed about it and searched it out for myself I came to my own conclusions. Not all are in line with the UPC and some are. There are very few standards that I do not agree with yet do it in obedience and the hair one is not one of those. I do not cut my hair for personal reasons, after researching it for myself - as much as I can, I am no scholar and i don't think God intended for it to be hard but I do think he wants us to dig into his word and study it - I came to the conclusion to not cut my hair.

I went through something like this.... First of all, the "not cutting the hair" is not a UPC thing....it is an apostolic thing....I'm not UPC! And there was a time, just a short time back, that my mind became sooo cluttered and I had to re evaluate everything I believed in......I was brought up this way I wanted things to be in my heart, not just tradition......I searched out the Word of God for myself....I listened to teachings, I looked at individual issues... Since i have done this, my ultra conservative friends were label me a liberal....liberal still picture me as ultra conservative... These standards , for the most part, I found to be backed up in the Word of God... I searched it for myself and I'm no longer searching it out...I found it to be truth! Somethings are just personal convictions....and tv and video, splits and sleeve length, sports, etc.... would be that......to me, those are standards.....the cutting of the hair, pants on a woman, jewelry~ those are Bible.

[QueenEsther]

Originally Posted by LadyChocolate

I went through something like this.... First of all, the "not cutting the hair" is not a UPC thing....it is an apostolic thing....I'm not UPC! And there was a time, just a short time back, that my mind became sooo cluttered and I had to re evaluate everything I believed in......I was brought up this way I wanted things to be in my heart, not just tradition......I searched out the Word of God for myself....I listened to teachings, I looked at individual issues... Since i have done this, my ultra conservative friends were label me a liberal....liberal still picture me as ultra conservative... These standards , for the most part, I found to be backed up in the Word of God... I searched it for myself and I'm no longer searching it out...I found it to be truth! Somethings are just personal convictions....and tv and video, splits and sleeve length, sports, etc.... would be that......to me, those are standards.....the cutting of the hair, pants on a woman, jewelry~ those are Bible.

I know exactly what you mean!!! It sounds like you and I have pretty much the same exact beliefs for the most part.

[LadyChocolate]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

I disagree LC. We blast people for teaching fales doctrines..doctrines they believe are in the bible...like snake handling, poison drinkling. Proxy baptism for the dead. Serpent seed doctrine, divine flesh doctrine, Preterism.

Are you saying if we sincerly believe theses things to be "the word form God" , that we will be in no danger teaching them?

If we impose and enforce no hair cutting and no pants wearing and we are wrong on our "intrepretaion" of the scripture we "think" these doctrines are found in that we havent lost anything?

I can't begin to tell you the people who have admitted our teaching of these doctrines are mis interpreted scripture, but are afraid of what others will think of them if they change what for so long they heralded as the only saving truth.

Listen, this is going to be a never ending battle....And I really don't know what to say,,,,, I know what I read in the bible and neither one of us , or anyone else, is going to change how we view things... I've been down this road before....When it comes to the end of time....I hope, for everyone's sake, that i've been wrong....and that it doesn't take all that....because then, I haven't lost anything and neither have a lot of many many good people... (does that even make sense? )

[LadyChocolate]

Originally Posted by QueenEsther

I know exactly what you mean!!! It sounds like you and I have pretty much the same exact beliefs for the most part.

Like I said, I was brought up this way....and I had to quit living it because of the church I went to and because of what Mama taught me... I got it for myself....There were many other things that I looked long and hard at... However, the one thing I never questioned was the Oneness of God! Deut. 6:4 was in my heart and it'll never depart!