Anyone Here Believe In Soul Sleep?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Beard

Soul sleep before the cross or after the cross? When did Jesus preach to the spirits (not souls) in prison? These spirits of just men made perfect are not in prison any longer, for they are before the throne of God as the redeemed of the Lord...the New Jerusalem, the church and assembly of the firstborn whose names are written in heaven, and to the spirits of just men made perfect. (Hebrews 12:23). The thief on the cross was with Jesus that day in Paradise, not three days later. Jesus moved Paradise from death before the cross, to His presence after the cross...they see his glory as promised in John 17...Jesus has the keys to death, hell and the grave. The believers are passed from death unto life...Jesus is the God of the living, not the dead.

Brother Michael and I have talked before over the phone... I appreciate his knowledge of the Word. We simply disagree on this doctrine of soul sleep.

Here is an article concerning the doctrine of soul sleep that was previously done in our newsletter for your scrutiny. God bless...wish I had more time...it is a great subject for study
http://www.dennisbeard.org/the-error...oul-sleep.html

Hi Bro, hope all is well.

How can the dead Saints be ALIVE IN HEAVEN if they have not yet been given IMMORTALITY?

51: Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52: In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53: For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54: So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55: O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 1 Cor. 15: 51-55

The Saints cannot be alive hundreds of years later if they are not yet immortal.

[Beard]

Hey Brother Michael...
All is well here...
you have been on my heart...
been praying for you and your family...
God bless

spirits of just men made perfect...not bodies of just men made perfect...
the question is: "Does the spirit have cognitive knowledge of its own, or only if is in a body comprising a soul?"

how can a person being absent from the body as Paul was, who was caught up to the third heaven, see things in their spirit and understand them without utilizing the brain as the organ for the soul? intuition or things known in the spirit is within the spirit of the person as knowledge gained without the intellect of the mind

then why the resurrection from the dead body if the spirit is already in heaven some will ask?
Dominion was given to man...and only a man has dominion in the earth; that is, a spirit within a body comprising a soul. The heaven belongs to the Lord, but the earth He has given to the children of men. Therefore the body will be the seed for the heavenly body that will be just like Jesus body after the resurrection. There was only one heaven in the beginning when God made the heaven and the earth; there are now three. When the New Jerusalem as the bride of Christ comes down from heaven to earth, again there will be only one heaven; Jesus being the King over heaven and earth; spirits in heaven being joined back to their bodies in the earth bringing in the kingdom of heaven.The interim between the death of the body and the resurrection of the body does not impair the spirit of the person having understanding, reason, and cognitive ability.

Here are the spirits of just men in heaven making inquiry of the Lord. "And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled." (Revelation 6:10,11). It is clear that the spirit is not asleep, for the soul does not sleep with the body in the grave.


again, I appreciate your knowledge of the Word

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Ok when we die we are judged. Hmmm. What is the purpose of the resurrection of THE DEAD? If we are not dead?

And what does this mean?

7: I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
8: Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Paul taught Timothy he would be JUDGED by the Lord at THAT DAY. The day of his appearing. The second coming.

Hi Michael,Yes when we die we are judged rather we have life or second death.If we have life our spirit and soul goes to paradise with the Lord and at the resurrection our spirit and or soul comes with Jesus and our bodies that are in the ground are changed and united with our spirit.The purpose of the resurrection is for our spirit to receive our reward,that is our new bodies.Everyones new bodies will be different according to our works.Following is scripture for everything I said.

Paul said when we are not in the body we are in the presentance of the Lord.2 Cor.5:8: We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord

When Jesus returns,we who sleeps he will bring with him.1 Thes.4:14: For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring WITH HIM

1 Cor,15:35: But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 36: Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
37: And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
38: But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
39: All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40: There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41: There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory

Ecclesiates 12:7: Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Hi Bro, hope all is well.

How can the dead Saints be ALIVE IN HEAVEN if they have not yet been given IMMORTALITY?

51: Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52: In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53: For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54: So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55: O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 1 Cor. 15: 51-55

The Saints cannot be alive hundreds of years later if they are not yet immortal.

Hi Michael,Our spirits are immortal now unless if they get cast into the lake of fire at the second death.Our bodies is not immortal,it dies and our spirit goes to the Lord.At the resurrection our spirit returns with Jesus and is united with an immortal body we are then given.

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by Beard

Hey Brother Michael...
All is well here...
you have been on my heart...
been praying for you and your family...
God bless

spirits of just men made perfect...not bodies of just men made perfect...
the question is: "Does the spirit have cognitive knowledge of its own, or only if is in a body comprising a soul?"

how can a person being absent from the body as Paul was, who was caught up to the third heaven, see things in their spirit and understand them without utilizing the brain as the organ for the soul? intuition or things known in the spirit is within the spirit of the person as knowledge gained without the intellect of the mind

then why the resurrection from the dead body if the spirit is already in heaven some will ask?
Dominion was given to man...and only a man has dominion in the earth; that is, a spirit within a body comprising a soul. The heaven belongs to the Lord, but the earth He has given to the children of men. Therefore the body will be the seed for the heavenly body that will be just like Jesus body after the resurrection. There was only one heaven in the beginning when God made the heaven and the earth; there are now three. When the New Jerusalem as the bride of Christ comes down from heaven to earth, again there will be only one heaven; Jesus being the King over heaven and earth; spirits in heaven being joined back to their bodies in the earth bringing in the kingdom of heaven.The interim between the death of the body and the resurrection of the body does not impair the spirit of the person having understanding, reason, and cognitive ability.

Here are the spirits of just men in heaven making inquiry of the Lord. "And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled." (Revelation 6:10,11). It is clear that the spirit is not asleep, for the soul does not sleep with the body in the grave.


again, I appreciate your knowledge of the Word

Hi Beard,Yes our Spirit has all knowledge with out the body. My spirit came out of my body one day.I was laying on the bed and the ceiling started comming closer and closer,well it scared me and I looked down and seen my wife and my body laying on the bed.Then I grabbed a hold of my wife and pulled my spirit down into my body.When we die and our body goes to the grave it has no knowledge.Our spirit goes to the Lord with all knowledge of what is going on.We know we are in heaven with the Lord weighting for the resurrection.Our spirit is transparent and looks just like our body.I believe our soul is our mind and stays with our spirit.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Joelel

Hi Beard,Yes our Spirit has all knowledge with out the body. My spirit came out of my body one day.I was laying on the bed ane the ceiling started comming closer and closer,well it scared me and I looked down and seen my wife and my body laying on the bed.Then I grabbed a hold of my wife and pulled my spirit down into my body.When we die and our body goes to the grave it has no knowledge.Our spirit goes to the Lord with all knowledge of what is going on.We know we are in heaven with the Lord weighting for the resurrection.Our spirit is transparent and looks just like our body.I believe our soul is our mind and stays with our spirit.

Hmmmmm.............wow. Ok.

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Hmmmmm.............wow. Ok.

I was thinking the same exact thing.

[BrotherEastman]

Hey Michael, have you read any of Josephus's writings? Josephus gives a dissertation of hades. I just read this dissertation, he seems to beleive that the souls of men do not actually sleep. Do you give him credibility?

[Michael The Disciple]

Josephus was a historian. I would trust him on that more than his spiritual views. It is not a sure fact that he believed in Yeshua as the Messiah. The things he did say about Hades are not written in scripture.

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Josephus was a historian. I would trust him on that more than his spiritual views. It is not a sure fact that he believed in Yeshua as the Messiah. The things he did say about Hades are not written in scripture.

You're right, Josephus was nothing more than a historian; but, he was a religious man who was taught by someone. It would seem, that through his discourse of hades, that their was scriptural validation as taught by Christ concerning some of the things he mentions. Have you had a chance to read any of his writings? Later, if I get a chance I will post some of the things he states with the scriptural references. Btw, this is a cool thread.