Origins of Pentecost

[HangingOut]

Wasn't the subject of present day UPC doctrine discussed on another thread along these lines. That is what I thought Marvin Arnolds book was suppose to be about.

[Revelationist]

Originally Posted by HangingOut

Never read the book, but one member on here that sit under Marvin Arnold said the book was speculative as far as church history is concerned and rather used assumptions as the one you stated.

I stated what the Bible said... that's not an assumption...

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by HangingOut

Wasn't the subject of present day UPC doctrine discussed on another thread along these lines. That is what I thought Marvin Arnolds book was suppose to be about.

No. That was another writer, whom I'd prefer not to dignify by naming.

[HangingOut]

Wouldn't disagree with you on that point about the bible, however you are making an assumption based on what is taught by others outside your circles and what I was saying in reference to the book itself. Trust me, I know where your coming from but you would have to further qualify the statement in an open discussion......you do agree?

Originally Posted by Revelationist

I stated what the Bible said... that's not an assumption...

[Kutless]

question.....when I read of the second work of grace they are probably speaking of tongues......right?

also in reading Bartleman and the beginnings of Seymour, were they preaching tongues before they themselves spoke with other tongues?

[Kutless]

Originally Posted by Kutless

question.....when I read of the second work of grace they are probably speaking of tongues......right?

also in reading Bartleman and the beginnings of Seymour, were they preaching tongues before they themselves spoke with other tongues?

reason for asking is in regard to Romans 8:9.......now if any man have not the spirit of Christ he is none of His."

This was a question raised in another reading.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Kutless

question.....when I read of the second work of grace they are probably speaking of tongues......right?

also in reading Bartleman and the beginnings of Seymour, were they preaching tongues before they themselves spoke with other tongues?

Some of the early folks in the American Pentecostal movement came from holiness type churches. These churches taught that a person had to go to an altar and "pray through" to obtain salvation. Salvation made you a new creature but you still had the old sin nature. A second work of grace was required. That work was called sanctification, or second blessing holiness, or the Holy Spirit baptism. It was received when the person consecrated and "prayed through" until they felt the witness of the Spirit that the "old man" had been sanctified or burnt out. When these folks began to receive another experience (speaking with tongues) they called this the Holy Ghost Baptism or the third work of grace. They could then testify that they had been saved, sanctified, and baptized in the Spirit. Later, a doctrine called "the finished work of Calvary" gained acceptance. This doctrine taught that a person was saved/regenerated by faith and at that time they were "set apart" (sanctified, called "holy" as far as God was concerned) and from then on were to grow an develop in consecration and holiness. The "sanctification as a definite second work" was abandoned by these people and the second work became the Holy Ghost baptism as we know it today. Those who accepted the finished work of calvary later organized into a group that we know today as the Assemblies of God. Those who retained the "second work/sanctification" doctrine ) and the third work (Holy Ghost Baptism) became the Apostolic Faith Mission, the Church of God (Cleveland, TN plus its many splits) and the Church of God in Christ. This happened back before Jesus' name baptism was being preached and both groups (those who believed in 3 works and those who believed in 2 works) were all called Apostolic.

As people saw and believed in the experience called the Holy Ghost baptism which was accompanied with tongues, they began to preach it and teach it even though some had not yet received the experience themselves. At that time "Apostolic" people did not believe that speaking with tongues was the same as the "birth of the Spirit" or that the experience was necessary for salvation.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Kutless

reason for asking is in regard to Romans 8:9.......now if any man have not the spirit of Christ he is none of His."

This was a question raised in another reading.

Most Pentecostals (including Assembly of God, Church of God, and some Oneness Pentecostals) believe that the birth of the Spirit and the Baptism in the Spirit are two separate experiences. In other words, when a person turns to God in faith and repentance and asks Jesus to come in, Jesus does come in as the Holy Spirit. This experience is called conversion, salvation, being born again. From then on, the Spirit of God (of Jesus) is living in the heart. of that individual. As a child of God that person is encouraged to seek an experience called the Baptism in the Spirit (or an overwhelming, saturating, empowering experience or a filling of the Spirit). This is standard teaching in churches known as "trinity Pentecostal" or "Charismatic" and even in some of the "Oneness" or "Jesus' Name" Pentecostals. This was an accepted doctrine in the UPC for years and is still taught and preached by some UPC ministers.

[Kutless]

Originally Posted by Sam

Most Pentecostals (including Assembly of God, Church of God, and some Oneness Pentecostals) believe that the birth of the Spirit and the Baptism in the Spirit are two separate experiences. In other words, when a person turns to God in faith and repentance and asks Jesus to come in, Jesus does come in as the Holy Spirit. This experience is called conversion, salvation, being born again. From then on, the Spirit of God (of Jesus) is living in the heart. of that individual. As a child of God that person is encouraged to seek an experience called the Baptism in the Spirit (or an overwhelming, saturating, empowering experience or a filling of the Spirit). This is standard teaching in churches known as "trinity Pentecostal" or "Charismatic" and even in some of the "Oneness" or "Jesus' Name" Pentecostals. This was an accepted doctrine in the UPC for years and is still taught and preached by some UPC ministers.

I have never understood it to be multiple works. Repent, be baptized, receive. Just saying.

[Apprehended]

God is the Father of Pentecost. There were two more annual feasts as well. the other two was Passover and Tabernacles. Every head of the household was commanded to go up to Jerusalem once in a year for all three feasts.