David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decision

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by CC1

The first UPC church I visited where I saw facial hair on the men who were saints and even ushers was Bro. Kershaw's church in the Dallas area back around the late 80's or early 90's. I remember being surprised there were ushers with mustaches.

I have been told there are a lot more churches now that allow facial hair on men which makes sense as I can't imagine on what pretext a pastor could tell a new convert who had a mustache or beard for years that they had to shave it. It would strictly be a test of theiir committment since there is no bible or logic for it.

I am thankful CC! that we are a UPC church that has many men with facial hair. In the pew and on the platform and on the board.

Gone is the ignorance of a 2008 facial hair prohibition in our church.

When I first came into church back in 1970 in Florida. i won to the Lord a black brother. he was immediatly told he had to shave to be saved.

This brother had a condition many blacks have, that if they shave close they get ingrown whiskers. Pastor told my new christian brother he had to shave..to have faith and shave it all would be well. (This was an AMF church so I'm not poking at ignorance in the UPC)

The brother had a Navy Dr.s permission slip to wear a beard because of this condition.

Well my friend did as pastor commanded and shaved..and his face broke out in a mess. The Navy Doc was agitated that he had shaved when told he should not.

Needless to say, my new convert did not make it long in that church.

Is he lost today because he was forced to follow an UN biblical edict of our church's
OR

Is that pastor lost for imposing and enforcing an UN biblical mandate on God's Elect??

I've been a christian now for 38 years, coming to faith when I was in the Navy as an 18 year old kid.

I'm amazed that I hung around this legalism for so long.

If our church would'nt have come into the light about 8 years ago that ALL of our so called holiness standards were founded on very poorly egegeted scripture I'd have left for a non denominatial church.

We have a great one in our area that went from 5 to 5000 in 8 years.

They preach Christ and him crucified without that "other gospel" that we Holiness folks preach.

Thank God I am free....at last

[Whole Hearted]

Originally Posted by Ron

I never cared for poofs our fancy hair styles, I much prefer people keeping it simple.

Hey my wife still wears a poof.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

The brother had a Navy Dr.s permission slip to wear a beard because of this condition.

Well my friend did as pastor commanded and shaved..and his face broke out in a mess. The Navy Doc was agitated that he had shaved when told he should not.

Needless to say, my new convert did not make it long in that church.

Sorry to hear that. I get so mad sometimes, when I hear stuff like that.

Just for clarification...Did he start going to a different church, or did he just drop out of church altogether?

[Ron]

Originally Posted by Whole Hearted

Hey my wife still wears a poof.

I'm sure she is a fine woman!

I just never cared for them!

[Ron]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Actually, no. Not worth considering at all.

Subarus are known to be very popular cars in the lesbian community.
(http://www.aaronjjohnson.com/Articles/subaru.html) (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1589/is_2004_Nov_9/ai_n8689924)

So now what? Should we start preaching against driving Subaru's now?
See how ridiculous we can get with this stuff?

Subarus are very popular around the Environmental community as well-there is a reason for that too!

[scotty]

Originally Posted by Alter Ego

Getting back to this...


We forget that, in the early stages of our movement, we were rogues, cutting edge, wild. Our worship was considered far outside of the mainstream. But we looked just like the rest of the world. Look at a group picture of any street scene in New York between 1900 and 1960 and you will notice that there is very little difference in "the church" and "the world."

Pentecostal men wore the same sort of suits as wordly men. The same hats. The same hairstyles. Our women looked no different that wordly women.

It wasn't until the sixties and seventies that we became so rigidly set against "worldiness." If you will notice, we are stuck in a time warp. Our ladies and men still look like that pre-sixties culture.

The cutting edge aspect of Pentecostalism has been replaced with dead, dry tradition. Tradition that strangles the movement of God in our fellowship. Tradition that is an insidious enemy that subverts fulfillment of the great commission.

Maybe it was the other way around, maybe the world just happened to look like us.....then the world changed and we stayed the same........is that really so bad?
Especially in a world today when so many make the comment, "things sure are not like they used to be".....our morals back then were not as bad as they are now, the world has compromised. What was an abomination back then is just another lifestyle now. the Hippie era was born out of rebellion, the new dress culture is just a side effect of that rebellion. Same with the womens movement, women in pants and short hair came as a side effect of the rebellion to not be just a woman but also just as good or like a man.
And if that is the conviction of some then so be it, but my convictions and the convictions of the UPC are that which they are now then so be that too. If you disagree then leave. Why sit here and gripe about something that you don't HAVE to be a part of...
(Note to Alter Ego : the first few lines are relative to quoting your post, the rest of this post is not directed soley at you but others as well)

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Sorry to hear that.
Just for clarification...Did he start going to a different church, or did he just drop out of church altogether?

He spoke in tongues in his frist trip to the alter. I can't remember we batized him or not.

He never went back to any church that I was aware of.

My first year in that church i brought close to a dozen other sailors who came in got the holy ghost batism and at the end of the year when I got out the Navy and moved home there was only two left who were not run off over UlraCon issuses.

One of those was tragically killed a short time after I left. The other to my knowl;edge did not stay with "The Truth" as we call it.

The Truth

[Jehoram]

Originally Posted by scotty

Maybe it was the other way around, maybe the world just happened to look like us.....then the world changed and we stayed the same........is that really so bad?
Especially in a world today when so many make the comment, "things sure are not like they used to be".....our morals back then were not as bad as they are now, the world has compromised. What was an abomination back then is just another lifestyle now. the Hippie era was born out of rebellion, the new dress culture is just a side effect of that rebellion. Same with the womens movement, women in pants and short hair came as a side effect of the rebellion to not be just a woman but also just as good or like a man.
And if that is the conviction of some then so be it, but my convictions and the convictions of the UPC are that which they are now then so be that too. If you disagree then leave. Why sit here and gripe about something that you don't HAVE to be a part of...
(Note to Alter Ego : the first few lines are relative to quoting your post, the rest of this post is not directed soley at you but others as well)

Why does every conversation of this sort always end with the refrain "if you don't like it, leave?" If all of us left every time we disagreed there would never be any organizations or churches at all.

And, for the record, some of us already have left.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by Alter Ego

Why does every conversation of this sort always end with the refrain "if you don't like it, leave?" If all of us left every time we disagreed there would never be any organizations or churches at all.

And, for the record, some of us already have left.

Why not? There are enough orgs. out there that one of them should be fitting. why do you want to come change mine? I like mine the way it is. You don't see me going to AoG and trying to change them to my conservative views. BTW we just had a "mass exodus" so they say , and we are fine. The org is still here and I doubt you could find many who seriously believe it is about to go under or go away.

If you have already left then why are you looking back?

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by scotty

Maybe it was the other way around, maybe the world just happened to look like us.....then the world changed and we stayed the same........is that really so bad?

...the Hippie era was born out of rebellion, the new dress culture is just a side effect of that rebellion. Same with the womens movement, women in pants and short hair came as a side effect of the rebellion to not be just a woman but also just as good or like a man.
And if that is the conviction of some then so be it, but my convictions and the convictions of the UPC are that which they are now then so be that too. If you disagree then leave.

Scotty, please.
Stop using weak arguments to defend non-biblical tradition.

Beards existed before and after the rise of the hippie culture. Apostolics [not all,but some] are the only ones I hear who insist on associating beards with hippie culture.

And where do you get this idea that women in pants was some form of rebelllion? Women wear T-shirts too, just like men. Was that born out of rebellion? According your way of thinking, should we then tell our sisters to stop wearing T-shirts because they're a man's garment?

Why are there who think that we should define our "holiness" by clinging tenaciously to dress standards from 40-60 years ago?