Apostolic Revival

Jason B · #1 03-07-2008, 08:07 PM

I am new to this board, so please pardon me if you all have discussed this before.

I am at a total loss why we apostolics tend to be divisive and reclusive as a movement. What could we do and how could we affect to world, if we had a real apostolic fellowship? Instead of putting UPC missionaries basically in competition with ALJC missionaries and PAW missionaries, we could plan better, say this city has a missionary or two, so why not put the next missionary in the next city. Imagine the influence of our churches if we had 2 or 3 large churches in a major city, instead of 40 churches of 20 people.

Yet of course, we can't fellowship with the next church, well because they have tv's, or our sleeves are longer than theirs. And we cant come together in unity, because someone would have to be an associate/asst pastor, instead of senior pastor. And God forbid if anyone give up thier place as superintendent or other posistions.

So we pine away, one split after another. We as a movement are surviving, but not thriving. And why? Has the power of God left? No. But we have decided who is God's church and who isn't.

I have never been to or even heard of a service, meeting, conference or campmeeting that was put together for the purpose of apostolics coming together for woship and unity.

I live in texas, and can testify it would be amazing if any of these things happened here. (On an unrelated thought, when did camp meeting become a social fashion party?) Can you imagine a conference that was UPC, ALJC, PAW, AWCF, and independents. It would have to be held in a stadium, certainly would be in Lufkin. Or even an area where 3 small churches pulled together to make 1 fairly strong and noticable church?

Yet from what I can gather, everyone is worried about what this person/group believes about holiness, modesty, tithing, sabbath, etc.

I say (perhaps in ignorance) that we should concentrate on the common denominator, that is our fundamental apostolic doctrine o the oneness of God, baptism in Jesus name, and the infilling of the Holy Ghost. for by One Spirit we are all baptized into One Body.

Jack Shephard · #2 03-07-2008, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason

I am new to this board, so please pardon me if you all have discussed this before.

I am at a total loss why we apostolics tend to be divisive and reclusive as a movement. What could we do and how could we affect to world, if we had a real apostolic fellowship? Instead of putting UPC missionaries basically in competition with ALJC missionaries and PAW missionaries, we could plan better, say this city has a missionary or two, so why not put the next missionary in the next city. Imagine the influence of our churches if we had 2 or 3 large churches in a major city, instead of 40 churches of 20 people.

Yet of course, we can't fellowship with the next church, well because they have tv's, or our sleeves are longer than theirs. And we cant come together in unity, because someone would have to be an associate/asst pastor, instead of senior pastor. And God forbid if anyone give up thier place as superintendent or other posistions.

So we pine away, one split after another. We as a movement are surviving, but not thriving. And why? Has the power of God left? No. But we have decided who is God's church and who isn't.

I have never been to or even heard of a service, meeting, conference or campmeeting that was put together for the purpose of apostolics coming together for woship and unity.

I live in texas, and can testify it would be amazing if any of these things happened here. (On an unrelated thought, when did camp meeting become a social fashion party?) Can you imagine a conference that was UPC, ALJC, PAW, AWCF, and independents. It would have to be held in a stadium, certainly would be in Lufkin. Or even an area where 3 small churches pulled together to make 1 fairly strong and noticable church?

Yet from what I can gather, everyone is worried about what this person/group believes about holiness, modesty, tithing, sabbath, etc.

I say (perhaps in ignorance) that we should concentrate on the common denominator, that is our fundamental apostolic doctrine o the oneness of God, baptism in Jesus name, and the infilling of the Holy Ghost. for by One Spirit we are all baptized into One Body.

Sounds great. Most people on here would be for it, but it will never happen. Too many egos and too many legalistic thinkers. The more liberal sided people would be ALL for it, but some on the conservative side might not be for it. Many times as I am sure you know the more conservative people tend to marginalize the more liberal as being lost, backsliders, or whatever term you could insert. I do join with you and agree that inorder for truth world change to happen we have to join forces, but it seems forces are against it.

TRFrance · #3 03-07-2008, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason

I say (perhaps in ignorance) that we should concentrate on the common denominator, that is our fundamental apostolic doctrine o the oneness of God, baptism in Jesus name, and the infilling of the Holy Ghost. for by One Spirit we are all baptized into One Body.

Not ignorance, brother, but perhaps idealism and naivete. We've all had those "cant we all just get along?" thoughts before. But realistically, the unity you're thinking of will probably never happen.

The walls between the apostolic groups are so firmly and deeply entrenched, that it would take a mighty move of God to bring them down... and I'm just not really expecting that to happen.

Among the "walls" (that are unlikely to be overcome) are differences in beliefs on:

*women preachers,
*marriage/divorce/remarriage,
*dress standards,
*jewelry,
*television (watching it...and using it for ministry),
*fellowshipping with Trinitarians
... and a whole lot more.

OneAccord · #4 03-07-2008, 08:21 PM

I think you right. The problem is however, we seem to have a problem coming to any consensus of the basics. You answered most of your questions already. There is entirely too much division, but what you gonna do? I think, and this is just my own toake on things...we just love to fuss. Fussing has become so normal to us that we feel like we're backslid if a fuss don't come up every two or three days.

I don't know- I've talked a lot about unity here but, it goes out the window. But I do remember in Florida once, someone organized a statewide fellowship meeting. It was held in Gainsville at an auditorim. What a sight that was. That place was packed with Apostolic believers from all over the state. And what a service! Sadly, we've become too plarized in our doctrines, in our organizations to seee something like that done today.

You on to something, Brother. It would be great-

By the way, welcome to the Forum!

Sam · #5 03-07-2008, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRFrance

...
Among the "walls" (that are unlikely to be overcome) are differences in beliefs on:

*women preachers,
*marriage/divorce/remarriage,
*dress standards,
*jewelry,
*television (watching it...and using it for ministry),
*fellowshipping with Trinitarians
... and a whole lot more.

All those differences already exist within the UPC

Sam · #6 03-07-2008, 08:35 PM

There is an organization called the UACoJC (United Apostolic Church of Jesus Christ). It is a small organization but has several churches in Indiana and some others in other states. They have monthly fellowship meetings in Indiana. I've never been to any but keep thinking I'll get there some time to one that is close to where I live in Ohio. It is my understanding that these fellowship meetings are attended by folks who are not in the UACoJC. Bishop Howard of New Castle, IN was part of the group who created this organization. He used to have fellowship meetings that were not limited to any specific organization.

The website for the UACoJC is
http://uac-jc.org/home.php

Sam · #7 03-07-2008, 08:39 PM

1 Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!
2 It is like the precious ointment poured on the head, that ran down on the beard, even the beard of Aaron [the first high priest], that came down upon the collar and skirts of his garments [consecrating the whole body].
3 It is like the dew of [lofty] Mount Hermon and the dew that comes on the hills of Zion; for there the Lord has commanded the blessing, even life forevermore [upon the high and the lowly].
Psalm 133:1-3 from the Amplified Bible

Scott Hutchinson · #8 03-07-2008, 08:40 PM

I think one probelm is that many people make salvational issues out of things that are not salvational.We need to focus on things that are essential and biblical and don't need to make things Thus Saith The Lord that The Lord didn't thus say.

Jack Shephard · #9 03-07-2008, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

1 Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!2 It is like the precious ointment poured on the head, that ran down on the beard, even the beard of Aaron [the first high priest], that came down upon the collar and skirts of his garments [consecrating the whole body].
3 It is like the dew of [lofty] Mount Hermon and the dew that comes on the hills of Zion; for there the Lord has commanded the blessing, even life forevermore [upon the high and the lowly].
Psalm 133:1-3 from the Amplified Bible

The bold part-is how many see it accept that most men/women only unify with people that believe exactly the same as them. As you and I well know there are friends of our that were once part of the ALJC that once they left they were treated as no longer being unified. They became out cast as it were. There was someone that said UNITY is 'U-N-I-Tied' together. Unity is nice to think about seldom obtained.

Sam · #10 03-07-2008, 08:47 PM

In the first verses of 1 Corinthians chapter 3 the Apostle Paul spoke of divisions in the church. He said that they were carnal because of their divisions. I think this could also apply to our divisions based on organization, following a popular preacher/leader, etc.

Here are verses one through nine from the New King James Version:

1 Corinthians 3

Sectarianism Is Carnal

1 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able; 3 for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men? 4 For when one says, “I am of Paul,” and another, “I am of Apollos,” are you not carnal?

Watering, Working, Warning

5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers through whom you believed, as the Lord gave to each one? 6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase. 8 Now he who plants and he who waters are one, and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building.